View Full Version : COLD WATER EXTRACTION made simple(r)
^ Yeah. You can. codeine, hydrocodone, oxycodone. It works for all of them.
But if you take oxy without APAP why would it matter?
Why to use in a nasal spray delivery system of course.. :)
can cwe work on benzos (ativan)?
no, because lorazepam is not water soluble, so are most benzodiazepines for that matter.
johanneschimpo
31-03-2008, 14:10
^ Well ativan is not appreciably water-soluble, so it wouldn't be the way you're used to it, but you could do an alcohol extraction on it (I don't know about the alcohol solubility of the rest of the pill contents).
But if this is for the same reason as the opiates, for a nasal spray, I must say its quite pointless. An ativan nasal spray would be no better than just taking the pills sublingually. They dissolve in less than a minute, kick in very fast, and have a very high bioavailability.
But you could extract the active drug from the pill, but keep in mind, your net result will be so damn small (ativan = 0.5, 1, or 2mg); good luck seeing it. ;)
^ Well ativan is not appreciably water-soluble, so it wouldn't be the way you're used to it, but you could do an alcohol extraction on it (I don't know about the alcohol solubility of the rest of the pill contents).
But if this is for the same reason as the opiates, for a nasal spray, I must say its quite pointless. An ativan nasal spray would be no better than just taking the pills sublingually. They dissolve in less than a minute, kick in very fast, and have a very high bioavailability.
But you could extract the active drug from the pill, but keep in mind, your net result will be so damn small (ativan = 0.5, 1, or 2mg); good luck seeing it. ;)
No not nasal, I was given a shot of it in the hospital yesterday, and it worked extremely fast (faster than sublingually), and would probably be the only drug I would consider IV'ing, but since extraction is not easy, Ill stay with sublingual.
bettyblue
15-04-2008, 02:45
may i ask how many pills you guys are using? i just used 18,(300 asa plus 8 mg codeine) so that would equal 144mg codeine? i used the method of crushing, letting it sit and dissolve well, and then filter through a good old tee shirt, then i drink the almost clear water.
johanneschimpo
15-04-2008, 03:57
People do it with anywhere from a few pills to dozens or even hundreds (hundreds if they're doing several doses at once for convenience).
Personally, I've done it with 64 pills before. It worked just as well.
bettyblue
15-04-2008, 04:05
People do it with anywhere from a few pills to dozens or even hundreds (hundreds if they're doing several doses at once for convenience).
Personally, I've done it with 64 pills before. It worked just as well.
ok, and how high did you feel? i don't find it lasts that long..with 18, that is.
Cartesia
15-04-2008, 04:13
^Codeine peaks about an hour in, then depending on how much youve had, just gradually fades over the next few hours.
I use hot water (hot tap, not quite full full heat), then drop ice in it till cool. .. I think this is quicker than using cold water cos the pills dissolve so much faster..
Also I use a cloth to filter, usually a tea-towel, And I just grab it in a bunch and squeeze the liquid out to speed up the filtration
For anyone that's interested, (And those that were talking about how getting it to almost icey was better)
BTW this only applies for ibuprofen CWEs... nurofen plus, etc
I once had a reference to a document with a graph for ibuprofen solubility in different temperature water... I dont have the original article. . .it can be found through google scholar somewhere just by searching for ibuprofen solibility temperature. . . or something like that
anyway,
The solubility per ml flattens out at about 10deg. C, going lower doesn't effect the amount of ibuprofen per ml according to this graph.
It's important to note that you need to keep the amount of water down, in order to reduce solubility too .. . I use about 50ml,
Also if you're desperate, and dont have the means to cool your solution, you can probably get away with it once every now and then without causing harm
- A 50ml room temperature solution can only hold something like 1g of ibuprofen which is the same as 5 nurofen plus pills. . . so if you are extracting any more than 5, even room temperature extraction is useful... depending on your room temperature of course. . . i used 25C when i worked it out from the graph.
johanneschimpo
15-04-2008, 04:16
bettyblue: Well, how high I felt is hard to answer. I wasn't really doing it to get high, but rather just to not feel sick. I was addicted to heroin at the time and visiting Europe. I took the codeine only not to withdrawal. ~500mg or whatever that is made me feel OK, not sick - but keep in mind I had a huge opiate tolerance at the time.
The first time I took any opiate it was codeine, and I don't remember if it was 60mg or 120mg... Either way, it was very intense. Keep in mind you lose a little bit of the codeine when you do a CWE.
bettyblue
15-04-2008, 04:19
bettyblue: Well, how high I felt is hard to answer. I wasn't really doing it to get high, but rather just to not feel sick. I was addicted to heroin at the time and visiting Europe. I took the codeine only not to withdrawal. ~500mg or whatever that is made me feel OK, not sick - but keep in mind I had a huge opiate tolerance at the time.
The first time I took any opiate it was codeine, and I don't remember if it was 60mg or 120mg... Either way, it was very intense. Keep in mind you lose a little bit of the codeine when you do a CWE.
gotcha, thanks guys <3
Bless you guys! I'll leave my intro in that section, but I was dying here on these Percodans due to the aspirin. Thanks to the Wiki, I learned that CWE exists. Thanks to Google, I found this thread. 3 pills drank already. Relief at last.
Sorry, I have Trigeminal Neuralgia, so anything to make the pain get lost is A-OK with me even though I'm getting regular old oxys later today.
My tummy thanks you all :D
I thank you for the effort, but honestly do we really want a simple, fast, EZ cold water extraction? Or do we want an effective one? (effective as in removing acetaminophen) I guarantee you, they are two different things. Using two pieces of tissue is a ridiculous method of filtering, IMO
Ive been meaning to type up my cold water extraction method. Super efficient when it comes to removing the opioid and also very effective at removing acetaminophen. Takes longer than 5 minutes though.
Sorry, I have Trigeminal Neuralgia, so anything to make the pain get lost is A-OK with me even though I'm getting regular old oxys later today.
Have you tried Nuerontin? I have severe neuralgia in my right foot which didn't respond to opiate treatments and eventually (huge) doses of neurontin worked for me. It was like I was granted a second chance at life.
jivepepper
27-08-2008, 23:07
Hello all new and had a small question.
I recently been prescribed hydrocodone 5/500 apap. I attempted my first CWE.
I basically took 2 tabs crushed them and dissolved them in warm water. Then I put it in the freezer until the water was almost froze. Then used a wet coffee filter.
Am I missing something? Thanks
malfunkshun
27-08-2008, 23:34
I did a CWE on loperamide (I was trying to get rid of the binders and make it easier to plug). I know, some people will say you can't get high on it, but you can and I have. Moving on, I threw away the dark green powdery solution and kept light green clear-ish solution. I plugged that and didn't feel a thing. DON'T SAY IT WAS BECAUSE LOPERAMIDE WON'T GET YOU HIGH. Did I throw away the wrong part?
jivepepper
27-08-2008, 23:51
Never heard of loperamide?
I cant stand seeing these threads encouraging using a piece of tissue paper... I mean come on, seriously.
I think that the instructions from the old cold water world should serve as the BARE MINIMUM for the steps/precautions that people should use to undertake a CWE. These steps can still be found at http://web.archive.org/web/20061021230838/http://adhpage.tripod.com/coldwater.htm
In short, use at least a piece of tightly woven cloth followed by a coffee filter.
johanneschimpo
27-08-2008, 23:57
I did a CWE on loperamide (I was trying to get rid of the binders and make it easier to plug). I know, some people will say you can't get high on it, but you can and I have. Moving on, I threw away the dark green powdery solution and kept light green clear-ish solution. I plugged that and didn't feel a thing. DON'T SAY IT WAS BECAUSE LOPERAMIDE WON'T GET YOU HIGH. Did I throw away the wrong part?
Well, first of all, loperamide won't get you high.
Second, you threw away the wrong part; loperamide has very little solubility in water. If you did a 10 second google search first you would have discovered that.
You were fortunate; if you had done it correctly, you would have just made yourself constipated.
jivepepper
28-08-2008, 00:04
I cant stand seeing these threads encouraging using a piece of tissue paper... I mean come on, seriously.
In short, use at least a piece of tightly woven cloth followed by a coffee filter.
Is the cloth to catch the bigger particles first, so it doesn't glog the the coffee filter?:)
Is the cloth to catch the bigger particles first, so it doesn't glog the the coffee filter?:)
Precisely, and it should also be noted that this piece of cloth should NOT be a t-shirt like alot of people say, it simply lets too much through. You need the type of tightly woven cotton from a dress shirt. As the cold water world link says, a piece of plain muslin cloth (available at WalMart or anywhere that sells cloth) works very well. In my experience, this piece of cloth catches the majority of the APAP so I see it as very important. Here is what I think is the best method (without going into alot of the finer details that ensure high efficiency.)
Grind the pills into a fine powder, no chunks remaining. Add about 100ml of water for every 15 or so tablets, place this water into the freezer, preferably with a thermometer. In the meantime, set up a glass (for the final product to filter into), with a kitchen funnel in the top. Into this funnel, place a cone coffee filter that was quickly* doused in iced water. On top of the coffee filter, place a 12" by 12" piece of muslin cloth, also wetted with iced water. When the solution in the freezer reaches 39-36 degrees, remove it and immediately poor it into the filtering apparatus. Let it filter on its own for a while, then squeeze the muslin cloth very tightly to force all remaining water into the coffee filter. you should now have a dried APAP pellet left over in the muslin cloth. To get even more stuff out of this, you can dissolve this back into more water and repeat the above process. Remember during this process that the good stuff is in the water, so the less water loss in transfer, the better.
*it has to be briefly doused, because if you let it soak for long it can weaken the pressed seal on the bottom of the cone filter causing it to collapse and release an APAP'y solution into your final product, which isn't what you want.
malfunkshun
28-08-2008, 03:57
Well, first of all, loperamide won't get you high.
Second, you threw away the wrong part; loperamide has very little solubility in water. If you did a 10 second google search first you would have discovered that.
You were fortunate; if you had done it correctly, you would have just made yourself constipated.
Funny, because I'm high on it right now. However, thanks for the info about the solubility.
johanneschimpo
28-08-2008, 04:01
^ Oh damn son, you gots da imodium nod going on? That be some bomb shit, dawg. 8)
malfunkshun
28-08-2008, 04:04
^ Oh damn son, you gots da imodium nod going on? That be some bomb shit, dawg. 8)
no, i've never nodded on any opiates. i made a thread about that once, about why i never get a nod on anything, whether its poppy pods or seed tea or morphine pills or any other type of opiate i've done.
but i'm definitely opiated right now. anyway, i know people don't care and i don't care if they or you don't either. if you have some good pain pills or whatever, great. it takes so goddamn much immodium to get high that it gets kind of expensive, so its only a last resort. it will get you a good buzz though if anyone were so inclined to experiment with it.
PARooolller
28-08-2008, 04:37
Hello all new and had a small question.
I recently been prescribed hydrocodone 5/500 apap. I attempted my first CWE.
I basically took 2 tabs crushed them and dissolved them in warm water. Then I put it in the freezer until the water was almost froze. Then used a wet coffee filter.
Am I missing something? Thanks
Yeah you're missing something!!!! About 35 more of those pills!!
It's fucking pointless to do a CWE on less than 100mgs/5grams APAP...You lose so much hydro during the process and unless you're eating dozens of them everyday, you are in no risk for toxicity...
Here's my rule of thumb--If I plan on eating more than 15 vicoden, I do the CWE...If it's 14, then I swallow them all...
CWE is extremely overrated..
Damn i hate Boots for changing Nurofen + from non splitable!. Codeine was my quality of life enhancer-well, i was able to enjoy some life.
I tried CWEs with Panadeine+ 15mgs Codeine@500mg Apap and it's just to mch trouble, combined with if i say take 4 wholes in morning=60mg Codeine, i just get to paranoid about Apap content, my mind going ova@ove 'have i taken to mch today-liver trouble, damn ruminations.
I can dissolve 6 and leave it in the fridge then just decanter off the clear solution, as long as i don't go ova 4gms Apap it's ok.
I could do 6 panadeine+ whole and 4 nurofen+ and that would give me~130mgs Codeine i guess.
Damn i need another script for straight codeine phos, but my hands healed and don't think a doc would give em to me for psych issues-despite 20 year GAD/anxiety runing@ruins my life, and my current, soon to b ex doc seems to think 1 yellow valium is all i need-on weekly pik-up, which will not last a week.
Hate SSRIs, AP-will resort to em if real bad thou.
Brink bac splitables, quick safe-only codeine+fillers, buy a pak split em ~200mgs drink with soda-AHHHHH.
I need another Doc
"Here's my rule of thumb--If I plan on eating more than 15 vicoden, I do the CWE...If it's 14, then I swallow them all..."
Thats still 7gms Apap there-not cool, they say 4gms OVER 24 HOURS-4grm at once would make me paranoid, 7, i'd be to worried to enjoy any gd effects
i hate these threads being reposted on. The max dose of APAP is all over the internet. Dont take 4g of APAP at a time. Its not going to hurt you now, but continued use down the road will fuck u up. Plus, its stupid to say to now do a CWE on pills below 15 pills. You dont know his opiate tolerance. If he was native, that could damn near close set him to CNS depression.
PARooolller
28-08-2008, 06:29
"Here's my rule of thumb--If I plan on eating more than 15 vicoden, I do the CWE...If it's 14, then I swallow them all..."
Thats still 7gms Apap there-not cool, they say 4gms OVER 24 HOURS-4grm at once would make me paranoid, 7, i'd be to worried to enjoy any gd effects
It's not necessarily safe in the terms of harm deduction but I practice heavy moderation, eat a small healthy meal before, and drink a gallon of water a day..
This simple method with the 2 glasses and a coffee filter just doesn't seem that efficient, I'm aware the processes get more complex but I WANT TO GET HIGH NOW!!! Not crush up my hydro and throw it in ice cold water.
El Guapo
28-08-2008, 06:30
Just reading this thread makes my bumhole burn.
Damn I wish I had some pills.
PPT sucks compared to some fresh CWE squirted up your pooper. (Don't tell me to plug my PPT. A fucking thimble-full of CWE was hard enough to get in there.)
PARooolller
28-08-2008, 06:33
Just reading this thread makes my bumhole burn.
Damn I wish I had some pills.
PPT sucks compared to some fresh CWE squirted up your pooper. (Don't tell me to plug my PPT. A fucking thimble-full of CWE was hard enough to get in there.)
HAH.. This is where I draw the line...What pills have you shot up your ass!!!?? Hydro?
Mr Blonde
28-08-2008, 06:48
Nods: Buy Chemist's Own.
It's not necessarily safe in the terms of harm deduction but I practice heavy moderation, eat a small healthy meal before, and drink a gallon of water a day..
This simple method with the 2 glasses and a coffee filter just doesn't seem that efficient, I'm aware the processes get more complex but I WANT TO GET HIGH NOW!!! Not crush up my hydro and throw it in ice cold water.
What you've just stated makes no sense, there is no moderation in "I WANT TO GET HIGH NOW." Also, eating a healthy meal and a gallon of water has no effect whatsoever on acetaminophen hepatoxicity. Your laziness can cost you your liver.
Snowblood
10-09-2008, 02:05
I HAVE to protect my liver, at this stage in my drug-taking life, 'cause I've been off and on various strong painkillers for several different pain problems my whole adult life, and I seriously worry about allowing my liver to have to absorb any more damage at ALL. Anyway, I've grown so sensitive to Tylenol/APAP that it actually makes me nauseus, but right now I only have these 7.5/750 generic Vicodin for my back-pain, so... I've finally started practising the CWE method, after much reading of threads here and how-to sites elsewhere on the 'net.
It is so fucking tedious!After like two hours of patient crushing up 11 tablets with my little mortar/pestle, waiting for the mixture to cool in the freezer and checking on it/mixing it every 5 minutes or so, straining it through not one but two different types of tight-woven white cloth as well as letting the stuff drip through a coffee filter, then prepping my system with a cimetidine tablet.
Then, I set to putting the fat glop of white paste through a second extraction to get out whatever more hydrocodone might have remained in it, then FINally drinking half of my finished bitter elixir and chasing it with a big glass of freshly squeezed grapefruit juice - yes, it worked, it pretty much killed the pain, and made me feel "warm and fuzzy," however I didn't get any itchies (I like those itchies,) but - but - christ, the whole process took half the damn day! And I'll need to do it all over again tonight when I get my new script.
Just thought I'd come 'round and bitch & moan about the CWE process. I DID have something significant to say or ask here, but I've forgotten what it was I wanted to say/ask. I'll come back here when I remember...
I HAVE to protect my liver, at this stage in my drug-taking life, 'cause I've been off and on various strong painkillers for several different pain problems my whole adult life, and I seriously worry about allowing my liver to have to absorb any more damage at ALL. Anyway, I've grown so sensitive to Tylenol/APAP that it actually makes me nauseus, but right now I only have these 7.5/750 generic Vicodin for my back-pain, so... I've finally started practising the CWE method, after much reading of threads here and how-to sites elsewhere on the 'net.
It is so fucking tedious!After like two hours of patient crushing up 11 tablets with my little mortar/pestle, waiting for the mixture to cool in the freezer and checking on it/mixing it every 5 minutes or so, straining it through not one but two different types of tight-woven white cloth as well as letting the stuff drip through a coffee filter, then prepping my system with a cimetidine tablet.
Then, I set to putting the fat glop of white paste through a second extraction to get out whatever more hydrocodone might have remained in it, then FINally drinking half of my finished bitter elixir and chasing it with a big glass of freshly squeezed grapefruit juice - yes, it worked, it pretty much killed the pain, and made me feel "warm and fuzzy," however I didn't get any itchies (I like those itchies,) but - but - christ, the whole process took half the damn day! And I'll need to do it all over again tonight when I get my new script.
Just thought I'd come 'round and bitch & moan about the CWE process. I DID have something significant to say or ask here, but I've forgotten what it was I wanted to say/ask. I'll come back here when I remember...
It can be ( and probably should be, when done correctly) a tedious/long process, but it is well worth it. You can do a large batch of a bunch of them at once too, just measure the amount of water you are using to figure out how much hydrocodone there is per volume in the final product.
johanneschimpo
10-09-2008, 02:27
I've only done a CWE a few times, I was in England and bought a lot of codeine to compensate for my withdrawals. In my experience, it only took a few minutes of actual work, and then a few more minutes waiting for it to cool. Why does it take you hours, snowblood?
Mr Blonde
10-09-2008, 05:21
I never do the whole heat up and freeze to crash the APAP out thing. I just throw the tablets in cold water and let them dissolve (unless they are those crappy N+ that take forever), then filter. That was my method during six months of high codeine use and no liver problems to date.
Snowblood
11-09-2008, 03:36
Well - I don't know why, Johanneschimp! Possibly it has something to do with my perfectionist tendencies and my cost-conscious paranoia about losing even a nano-litre of precious hydrocodone through this whole process. Plus, all the how-to sites and threads I've found vary either slightly or profoundly in their particular sets of instructions, and, finally, chemistry and numbers are not, and never have been, my forte. This is a big reason why I never went into the lucrative side-venture of drug-dealing, back in the day when I had ample, ample opportunity to do so and make fists of cash. Because I suck at weights and measurements, and math, and chemistry.
What's this about heating it up first? Another step to worry about? Can someone please link me to the best, most professional- yet layman-friendly CWE site out there? NOT "Harry's," and yeah I've googled and been to erowid and used-the-fucking-search-engine like mad already, for weeks, I just wanted to see if anyone here happens to know of any better CWE instructional sites/pages out there.
Mr Blonde
11-09-2008, 17:52
What's this about heating it up first? Another step to worry about?
In my opinion it's a useless step; I don't understand the reasoning behind allowing more APAP to dissolve then crashing it out. I just always go with the simple CWE I mentioned above your post.
Snowblood
11-09-2008, 22:37
NOW I remember what I was gonna ask here in this thread!! I only just remembered, it was this: So, the little ball of white caulking-looking goop that remains in the muslin after squeezing, if it has no taste at all, does that mean all the hydrocodone is out? Or enough of the hydro is out where it's pointless to try and run another extraction?
I'm running under the assumption that the bitter elixir left behind is bitter due to the hydro, is that correct? So, if bitter=hydrocodone, I can sort of gauge how well my extractions are doing by using my tastebuds. Right?
NOW I remember what I was gonna ask here in this thread!! I only just remembered, it was this: So, the little ball of white caulking-looking goop that remains in the muslin after squeezing, if it has no taste at all, does that mean all the hydrocodone is out? Or enough of the hydro is out where it's pointless to try and run another extraction?
I'm running under the assumption that the bitter elixir left behind is bitter due to the hydro, is that correct? So, if bitter=hydrocodone, I can sort of gauge how well my extractions are doing by using my tastebuds. Right?
Well, the opioid part of it is quite bitter, so you may be able to detect the absence of that same bitterness. Its quite subjective though, all you really need to do is filter once, take what was left in the cloth after that and repeat the process with it. In my opinion, two filtrations is the sweet spot for getting out the maximum amount of opiate while minimizing the amount of APAP in the final solution. (Keep in mind, even in the CWE, acetaminophen will dissolve at 8mg/ml of water that you use, so too much water is a bad thing.)
can CWE exaction work on all pills or dose it vary ?/?
and can i use for bupropion extraction from wellbutrine
Mr Blonde
20-09-2008, 15:50
^ It only works on pills where the other ingredients are insoluble in water and the one you want is soluble in water/ or vice versa I imagine.
Why would you want to extract bupropion from wellbutrin? There are no other active ingredients...
Does he mean extracting Bupropion from Bupropion SR? i.e. Like when Immediate Release Bupropion were snorted? BTW I've never snorted Bupropion so have no experience. Does it have any recreational value?
Cheers
Mr Blonde
20-09-2008, 19:12
^ Not really. It's pretty shit actually.
That might be what he means, in which case crushing it would be easier.
johanneschimpo
20-09-2008, 23:21
Does he mean extracting Bupropion from Bupropion SR? i.e. Like when Immediate Release Bupropion were snorted? BTW I've never snorted Bupropion so have no experience. Does it have any recreational value?
Cheers
It causes great recreational seizures.
(No, it has no recreational value unless you're in prison)
In my opinion it's a useless step; I don't understand the reasoning behind allowing more APAP to dissolve then crashing it out. I just always go with the simple CWE I mentioned above your post.
yeah i actually realized this recently, and from what i can tell i get about the same amount of acetominophen removed in the coffee filter.
whenever caffeine is in the mix now i also pass it once through activated charcoal. probably removes some codeine, but definitely removes a large chunk of caffeine. if some codeine is lost, i still feel it more strongly cause of the lack of caffeine on the same dose
johanneschimpo
20-09-2008, 23:31
The technique of using warmer water and cooling it down causing the APAP to crash out is only worthwhile if you're using a very small amount of water (expertly calculated to be just enough for the codeine). Otherwise, starting with cold water does just about the same thing.
i thought it was to minimize losses when doing it scientifically, but translates into nothing that makes a difference (like only a few % points). but yeah what you're saying makes sense
I've been frustrated with my recent CWE's but today I used less water and it was 100% better. Just gotta play around until u find a formula that works IMO.
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