MDMA: Levels of Refinement - My personal theory on the matter

psycoa_synaps · 20-11-2009, 06:58

To all whom this may concern,

My original intentions on making this thread, were to get some opinions on the varying quality and effect of different refinement levels of MDMA, but as you will soon find out, I got a little distracted, anyway, I feel this thread will exist for the betterment of drug culture (or just MDMA culture) as a whole

I have been very interested in researching and experimenting with a variety of substances for several years now, mainly and more recently, MDMA (molly/ecstasy) I have recently stumbled upon a source for this substance, this "source" claims he distributes it for a friend of his, who is a chemist (seeing the quantity of the substance numerous times, I begin to believe him)

Now, Let me get onto what this thread is aiming at

Before meeting this "source" I knew very little about MDMA and its levels of purity. I just assumed there was only one way to come away with a product. But after my encounter with this source, I now realize that there are different levels of refinement when it comes to processing and distributing MDMA. There are different "tiers" of refinement, and the substance is sold at all tiers. The bulk of it being less refined, and very powdered, almost like flour but a little more grainy, sometimes having an off-white color.

The most refined form would look and feel more like varying sized chunks of sea salt, and white to clear in color. I have experienced both levels of refinement. The most refined obviously being the best, and most like how ecstasy is described from a professional standpoint. The less refined substance maintains ALL aspects of the perfected substance, except there is a certain cloudiness to it overall. Everything is there, but along with a feeling of drunkenness.

This leads me to my next point,

So many people argue about whether its safer to take MDMA (powder) or pressed pills. The truth about it is this.
Pressed pills exist because 100% refined MDMA is not marketable. People started mixing smaller amounts of pure MDMA with some sort of speedy substance, usually being methyl amphetamines, so that the pure MDMA feeling would last longer. Both parties are happy. But then, crooked people just trying to get rich quick start to find out about these huge parties (bonnaroo, allgood, and so on) and want to get in on the profit, So they start mixing other things together, which are not even related to MDMA, and sell them to thousands of people at the festivals, then people get hurt, almost die, feel like they are dying, the list goes on. BAM!! the name of pressed MDMA pills is soiled! and people have arguments about whether pressed pills or molly is the better bet.

My original intentions on making this thread, were to get some opinions on the varying quality and effect of different refinement levels of MDMA. So please, let the discussion begin!

and no Bashing please

Shambles · 20-11-2009, 08:53

Yup. MDMA comes in many degrees of purity depending mainly on the skill of the chemist and how much pride they put into their work. Great when you have access to the really good Goodies though

I'm not convinced by your opinions regarding the lack of market for high-quality MDMA cos it is most definitely there. Albeit possibly a bit of a niche thing since so many are so used to pills with active cuts that "smacky pills" aren't too popular amongst the mainly meph-fueled relative newcomers to the scene. Compared to the pipz they were probably more familiar with before then I can almost see why it's so popular over here... almost.

Also, your argument seems mostly to be based on an entirely US-based standpoint - methamphetamine is never found in UK pills, for example - and things vary wildly around the world, I suspect. Can assure you that high-quality MDMA - crystal and pills - are still very much in demand in the UK. Probably cos we were spoiled with a neverending supply... until it ended

Psilo707 · 20-11-2009, 09:07

----> Ed! :d

MazDan · 20-11-2009, 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by psycoa_synaps

So many people argue about whether its safer to take MDMA (powder) or pressed pills. The truth about it is this.
Pressed pills exist because 100% refined MDMA is not marketable.

My original intentions on making this thread, were to get some opinions on the varying quality and effect of different refinement levels of MDMA. So please, let the discussion begin!

and no Bashing please

What has "pressed pills exist because 100% blah blah blah" got to do with "people arguing about molly being safer than pills"??

And who is arguing about that anyways???

Finally, how do we have a discussion about the "varying quality and effect of different refinement levels of MDMA."????? Unless your the chemist then there is no way you can know.

mate, maybe I missed the point but it just all sounds a bit strange.

I would appreciate if you could maybe make things a bit clearer.

Cheers.

Vaej · 20-11-2009, 14:52

it did make me think a lot about molly being safer than pills, yes you can get a pill test kit but there can still be other additives mixed with the mdma. my point being when you buy molly, you know what your getting.

silentangst · 20-11-2009, 15:16

Except that molly can be cut as well, and it's easier for the dealers lower down to do it.

avcpl · 20-11-2009, 16:16

Thanks for the post OP. It is interesting to think about. I wondered why some pills get more rave reviews than others even when there is supposedly pure mdma only. I thought maybe it was different binders that lead to different release times or something, but of course who knows just how the levels of refinement of mdma affect the effects.

I strongly disagree that "100 percent mdma is not marketable". What I don't understand is the failure to seize the marketability....

psycoa_synaps · 20-11-2009, 19:55

Thank you for the replies!

First of all, I admit that the statement "100% pure mdma is not marketable" is not entirely clear. What i meant by it, is that people are so use to a certain dosage, actually pure mdma would not match those dosage amounts. For example, I took 50mg of it, And i was feeling the full effects for a good 3-4 hours (reflective of the clinically derived average time of duration) . And I am typically less responsive to MDMA than most people. So in that sense, people would not want to buy half the amount, even tho the same effect would be achieved, but feel more like what ecstasy is supposed to feel like. So, I guess the statement should have gone more like "100% pure MDMA is not marketable given the current outlook on MDMA, and expected dosage amounts"

Second of all, You are right Shambles, My post is from a US standpoint, as I have yet to make my way out of the country for any extended period of time (soon though!) But from what i have read on forums and such, is that European/UK based MDMA (pills or whatever) still has something added to it, or else it would not last longer than 4 hours, and also, Pure MDMA would not be anything but white or clear unless it had something added to it. And I have read many accounts of MDMA from the UK being gray, brownish, reddish! That is all way off from what it should look like free of additives. Maybe it isnt methamphetamine, but it is some sort of stimulate, I promise you that.

Third of all, MazDan, What i meant by "people arguing...." Is that Molly has, in recent years, been marketed as being "safer" than taking a pressed MDMA pill, because it is just MDMA, and nothing else. (which might be true in most cases, but it isnt the finished product, aka unwashed, still produces non-MDMA like effects) therefore people have discussions on which ones is safer, but it is all fruitless gibber jabber, and people need to know the truth.
Also "Unless your the chemist then there is no way you can know" ????? Do you not understand the post? I am basically getting it from a chemists friend, and have tried it at different levels of refinement. It is more powdery when less refined, I was hoping other people out there were in the same situation I am in, and could disscuss this with me. So if you are not one of those people, that discussion does not involve you. (that was not supposed to sound mean at all, just trying to make a point)

To avcpl: "What I don't understand is the failure to seize the marketability.... " this could change soon, wink*

MrMan737 · 20-11-2009, 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shambles

Can assure you that high-quality MDMA - crystal and pills - are still very much in demand in the UK. Probably cos we were spoiled with a neverending supply... until it ended

Haha! You sound like us folks down here in Southern Cali.

We had forgotten that shitty MDMA existed, until all of a sudden it's all we've got.

MazDan · 20-11-2009, 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaej

it did make me think a lot about molly being safer than pills, yes you can get a pill test kit but there can still be other additives mixed with the mdma. my point being when you buy molly, you know what your getting.

NO NO NO.

Molly is NOT safer than pills and pills are NOT safer than molly.

Thats the whole point.

There is NO argument.

Its a fact.

MazDan · 20-11-2009, 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by psycoa_synaps

Third of all, MazDan, What i meant by "people arguing...." Is that Molly has, in recent years, been marketed as being "safer" than taking a pressed MDMA pill, because it is just MDMA, and nothing else.

????? Who is doing this marketing? I have never heard such a thing except maybe from some new kid on the block who doesnt know any better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by psycoa_synaps

I am basically getting it from a chemists friend, and have tried it at different levels of refinement.

I have highlighted what is basically the only bit of truth. Its basically absolute poppycock what your talking about.

Yeah well i sort of basically know the chemist, I mean I sort of basically get it from a friend who knows a chemist. Well actually its basically a friend of the chemists hairdresser.
OK I will be basically straight, its not quite, its just that we basically saw a guy walk into this hairdressing salon and he had a white coat and my mate once new a dog that pissed on the hair dressing salons door and so that basically makes him friends with the hairdressing guy.

Come on man......

RGB · 20-11-2009, 23:29

psycoa_synaps, I'm not sure what you mean by "levels of refinement". I mean, yes, it's obvious that if you pay more attention and properly perform the acetone washes at the end you'll have more product versus junk, but MDMA is MDMA -- the only thing that'll vary is how much MDMA you have at the end of the process. If there's a lot of junk from the synth process that'll of course throw off your dosing, since you'll be measuring junk along with MDMA when you take it. I don't think this equates to different "levels" of MDMA with qualitatively different effects, it just means you'd have to take more of the MDMA+junk to have the same effect as taking 100% MDMA alone (and 100% yield is generally speaking an impossible goal in any synthesis). Yield will always vary from chemist to chemist, because it's just a question of how precise the chemist is in following the synthesis...this doesn't seem like news to me.

The "cloudy" state you mention from unrefined MDMA sounds a lot like MDE to me -- are you sure the chemist isn't referring to making a mistake in the synthesis which would cause you to end up with MDE? I'm not familiar with MDE synthesis, so I'm not sure how possible this is, but I think it's a possibility.

Otherwise, it seems like you've pretty much described the situation as it is, though I argue that people are pressing random chemicals into pills not because they're unscrupulous per se, but because they feel like those chemicals add value to the MDMA experience. For instance, some people want a "trippy" roll, hence they press 2cb in with the MDMA. It's foolish, but I don't think it's outright malicious.

Also, this is important, so I'll reiterate what MazDan said: molly is not "safer" than pills. They can both be cut with potentially dangerous agents, thus they must both be tested and used in moderation.

missheidi · 21-11-2009, 06:17

I've never come across mdma in powder form before. Normally I get pressed pills but this time I came across some colored molly. I tested it and it turned black instantly. I just wanted to know if anyone has ever come across this before? Is this normal? FYI the powder is blue if that helps.

gelleng · 21-11-2009, 06:20

It's probably just pressed pills that have been smashed up and sold in powder form... I do this in order to snort them.

missheidi · 21-11-2009, 06:26

I was thinking that....kinda stupid to crush up pills and put em in capsules tho

missheidi · 21-11-2009, 06:27

Also there's alot of white crystals in the powder, thats why i believe it may actually be molly

Woodrowbt · 21-11-2009, 06:29

i believe crystal form of molly is more of a dirty looking crystal is it not?

gelleng · 21-11-2009, 06:39

Looks like clear brown sugar... I would be all over it no matter what colour it is if you texted it pure... lol

jdsinglebarrel · 21-11-2009, 07:15

It's easier to cut molly than it is to cut pills. I would trust a pill before I trust a random source of molly any day of the week.

Zzyzx · 21-11-2009, 07:32

Merging with current molly thread

psycoa_synaps · 23-11-2009, 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by RGB

psycoa_synaps, I'm not sure what you mean by "levels of refinement". I mean, yes, it's obvious that if you pay more attention and properly perform the acetone washes at the end you'll have more product versus junk, but MDMA is MDMA -- the only thing that'll vary is how much MDMA you have at the end of the process. If there's a lot of junk from the synth process that'll of course throw off your dosing, since you'll be measuring junk along with MDMA when you take it. I don't think this equates to different "levels" of MDMA with qualitatively different effects, it just means you'd have to take more of the MDMA+junk to have the same effect as taking 100% MDMA alone (and 100% yield is generally speaking an impossible goal in any synthesis). Yield will always vary from chemist to chemist, because it's just a question of how precise the chemist is in following the synthesis...this doesn't seem like news to me.

The "cloudy" state you mention from unrefined MDMA sounds a lot like MDE to me -- are you sure the chemist isn't referring to making a mistake in the synthesis which would cause you to end up with MDE? I'm not familiar with MDE synthesis, so I'm not sure how possible this is, but I think it's a possibility.

Otherwise, it seems like you've pretty much described the situation as it is, though I argue that people are pressing random chemicals into pills not because they're unscrupulous per se, but because they feel like those chemicals add value to the MDMA experience. For instance, some people want a "trippy" roll, hence they press 2cb in with the MDMA. It's foolish, but I don't think it's outright malicious.

Also, this is important, so I'll reiterate what MazDan said: molly is not "safer" than pills. They can both be cut with potentially dangerous agents, thus they must both be tested and used in moderation.

Thank you RGB for the most reasonable response i have received from this thread. Everyone else seems to be missing the point. I am not trying to say molly is safer than pills. I was actually more or less trying to say neither is safe at this point (with street chemists trying to make money)

RGB, I understand that the "levels of refinement" thing doesnt make alot of sense, but i did not know how else to put it. but your response was exactly what i was looking for. I was basically trying to find out if the powder is even MDMA?! or just something related to MDMA, because this stuff even makes your eyes go crossed at a high enough dose. Doesnt sound like a response to a large does of MDMA. Whatever this "less refined" or, "less washed" MDMA is, I have seen it a lot around the scene being sold as MDMA, and the actual final product (pure crystal) I have NEVER seen, except from this chemist.

which brings me to what MazDan has said. Thanks for observing my request of "No Bashing" please. NOT! you seems to be the kind of person who feels they need to bring people down in order to make themselves feel better. Thats fine, but keep it to yourself. I was trying to avoid any sort of incriminating statements. I know this person, it does not matter to what degree. thanks

MrMan737 · 23-11-2009, 22:37

Psycoa, he's not trying to bring you down...

He's just trying to deal with a thread that has a very abstract purpose, if it has one at all.

Let's start over a bit; is this thread meant to be an informative thread? As in, does it exist to inform rollers about the appearance and effects of multiple tiers of MDMA refinement?

Also, are there any questions you would like answered?

You need to provide us with something more pointed. We're really not sure where this thread is going, or what its intention was.

MazDan · 23-11-2009, 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by psycoa_synaps

which brings me to what MazDan has said. Thanks for observing my request of "No Bashing" please. NOT! you seems to be the kind of person who feels they need to bring people down in order to make themselves feel better. Thats fine, but keep it to yourself. I was trying to avoid any sort of incriminating statements. I know this person, it does not matter to what degree. thanks

Mate, you have rambled on about the fact you are basically the chemist and want to compare your experiences with various degrees of perfection of mdma with others.
You cant be serious.
For starters its ridiculous to think you can believe you are getting various degrees of refinement and are able to discern which is which.

And even more silly to expect anyone to be able to compare there level of refinement against yours and the relevant experiences.

And now after your last post, I get the impression you dont even know if what you had was mdma.

And that being the case means you are really asking for a substance ID which is against our rules.

But the strangest thing of all is that you come in here with a thread titled MDMA..........the truth.

The truth is that you cannot come in here claiming to know truths about something and not expect to be hauled over the coals when you dont seem to know anything at all.

I dont care how many please dont bash me sentences you write.

MrMan737 · 23-11-2009, 23:11

Quote:

The truth is that you cannot come in here claiming to know truths about something and not expect to be hauled over the coals when you dont seem to know anything at all.

This. Here at Bluelight the moderators and most informative posters have the intention of countering the common assumption that information gathered on the internet is completely unreliable. Which is why none of us claims to be a holy grail of knowledge on any subject.

Instead we encourage research, and making decisions or opinions based on unbiased fact. On the other hand, we love sharing our findings/thoughts/opinions, but we never tote them as the 'truth'.

As for yourself, you're toting a few personal opinions (that have no scientific backing) regarding MDMA purity and its subjective effects. You've done so without sources and without any sort of tests, and a lot of what you've posted just doesn't make much sense at all.

psycoa_synaps · 24-11-2009, 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by psycoa_synaps

My original intentions on making this thread, were to get some opinions on the varying quality and effect of different refinement levels of MDMA,

This was in my original thread post, and sums up my intentions on starting this discussion, everything else in the post seems to have misled alot.

I think the bottom line is, I screwed up on the title, the title is very misleading to my actual intentions. I apologize for this.

This is my first post

Hopefully my next post will be a little more fruitful

Sorry MazDan, I did not mean to confuse you, I really wasnt looking for any answer, just a discussion about MDMA, and how I believe it is being sold without being fully washed, or refined to the level of purity it SHOULD be. I ended up adding a bunch of information/opinion which was not related to the discussion I wanted