[LSA's Subthread] Extraction of LSA's

[trippLIKEiDo]

I already read the whole thread on how to extract the amides, but my question is, if i drink the alcohol extract that supposedly has the amides, will i feel the effects of the alcohol also or will the LSA's outweigh it?

[BlueDeer]

It's not much alcohol, so the effect of the Lysergic Acid Amides will over power it...
Why did you start another topic about Morning Glory, you should of just added to the ongoing discussion...

[Mnx4]

Hey. I've already tried doing this once before and it didn't work. There were a lot of factors, though, that probably lead to that. 1. I used seed that i think had "expired" or something to that effect. 2. I only had a blender so i thought it would be a good idea to put water in there so that the blades could reach the seeds.... but then i found out that water will also extract the lsa so I had to evaporate the water. I used naptha to get rid of the fish-eye poison i've heard of, then i let that evaporate, then i put it in an everclear solution for about 3 days, stirring it every once in a while. I got this brownish disgusting liquid after so i decided the best thing to do would be mixing it with something. I put it in some iced tea that i had just made and I dunno what the fug happened, but my iced tea turned white, which, i'm assuming, isn't good Anyway, i'm going to try the same thing again but now i'm using something called Varnish makers and Painters Naptha in place of the zippo fluid naptha... is the stuff i'm now using (the VM & P Naphtha) A. Safe? and B. Effective? Thanks for the help and any advice whatsoever would be krunk. -Mnx4

[Real_Illusion]

I read an extraction guide on extracting the LSA from morning glories. Since Naptha (zippo lighter fluid) is probably the only solvent I can get to get out the nasty garbage, that's what I'll need. I hear sometimes it can contain benzene which can kill you. Do the labels always contain information on if it has it? If not, how can I find out?

[Dr.AM]

By law companies are not required to post complete ingredient listings on products that are not food-grade.. so basically unless they tell you, there's no way to find out. But as long as you evaporate your naphta properly at some point there's no danger.

[morninggloryseed]

Do NOT use naptha. I do not care what you have read on the internet, naptha is very dirty and will leave a residue you will taste. The only acceptable thing to use is lab-grade petroleum ether and naptha is not a substitute for it. If you can not obtain lab-grade petroleum ether, then please do not attempt to make extractions using morning glories and petroleum-based solvents unless you want to ingest potentially carcinogenic compounds and drink something that tastes like an oil factory.

Trust me, I've made all kinds of extracts with the seeds and I know what I am talking about. And lighter fluid and naptha are not the same thing. Lighter fluid has naptha in it, but also other petroleum distillates.

If you don't want to eat the seeds, why not just make a simple water infusion of the seeds? Just soak a dosage of the ground seeds in distilled (pure) water for 6 hours or so. Stir often. Then use a tee-shirt or cheese cloth to filter it. Do not use a coffee filter as it will quickly clog. A high quality paper towel will also work.

[ashaman]

what does soaking it in pure distilled water do? does it get rid of the nausea cuaing substance but leave the LSA behind?

[Real_Illusion]

Morninggloryseed - I'll take your advice, thanks.

How much of the alkaloids will the infusion usually extract? Can I evaporate it to leave behind solid extract?

[morninggloryseed]

>what does soaking it in pure distilled water do? does it get rid of the
>nausea cuaing substance but leave the LSA behind?

Glycosides in the seed are responsible for most of the nausea and they are not water soluble. Water extracts produce little or no nausea, at least in my experience and I am prone to getting nauseous with psychedelics.

But the trip seems different. More narcotic, and less psychedelic in nature. I never liked it as much. Having said that, I've had some pretty damn powerful trips with water extracts of morning glory seeds so don't go crazy with the stuff.

>How much of the alkaloids will the infusion usually extract?

I don't know what the yields are, but the water extracts do seem less potent than if one were to eat the ground seeds. But it isn't quantitatively less potent, it seems qualitatively less potent. As I said, water extracts feel more narcotic and less psychedelic.

Perhaps some of the psychedelic LSAs in the seeds do not dissolve in H2O as well as the highly water-soluble d-lysergic acid amide (LA-111, ergine, lysergamide) which is mostly sedating in nature according to Hoffman. It obviously is not the main contributor to the psychedelic state that the whole (ground) seed produces. Perhaps, water extracts contain a different ratio of LSAs than the whole seed. There is something different about it. This would be an interesting area of study.

>Can I evaporate it to leave behind solid extract?

Theoretically yes. Water does evaporate. But it does slow very slowly at room-temperature. I'd think your extraction would turn pretty nasty by the time all the water evaporated off. Then again, I've never tried. And I'll bet a fan would speed up the evaporation.

But LSAs are probably not the most stable molecules. I would not leave them exposed to open-air very long. Morning glory tea does not taste that bad. At least compared to some other herbal infusions I've drank. I'd just drink it. It kinda tastes like "potato water." Not as bad as poppy tea, or brew of Peganum harmala which tastes like fucking vomit. Both going up and down.

I've evaporated extracts made with alcohol, and I never got crystals. Just a sticky goop and it's hard to work with. I ended up just adding water to it because I could not scrape it off the pan very easily. I'm sure it would be the same if you used water.

[Real_Illusion]

How many seeds should I use in a water extract if I want it to be equal to 250 seeds? By the way, if its more narcotic then good, but I want it to be close to the same psychedelic effect of 250 seeds.

[anjatalker]

What about for hawaiian baby woodrose seeds? I have a batch that has good effects when 5 seeds are just chewed and swallowed. How many would I need to use with water extraction to get the same psychedelic effects?

Thanks.

[HomeWrecker]

I wouldn't advise you use naptha. You can make a tea with water, or if you want a more reduced product you can use isopropanol.

[Real_Illusion]

"I wouldn't advise you use naptha. You can make a tea with water, or if you want a more reduced product you can use isopropanol."

That was already stated....

[morninggloryseed]

LSAs are not as soluble in isopropyl alcohol as they are in everclear (ethyl alcohol.) If you are going to use alcohol to make a M.G seed extract, you want to use gain alcohol.

[Mnx4]

Actaully, I just read in another forum a rather interesting and ingenious post about this. I don't really even need the naphtha. If you think about it, the substance within the morning glory seeds, LSA, is a polar molecule, and the fish-eye poison, or whatever bad substance that makes you sick is in there, is nonpolar. Using naphtha will remove the non-polar, bad substance out and leave you with good seed mush with LSA. But why do that? If you can extract the good LSA stuff from the seeds with a polar solvent, such as alcohol or water, then it won't and can't extract the poison because it's nonpolar! To put it simply, if you put oil in water, they won't mix because they're two different type of molecules. Anyway, I also read that naphtha can diminish the buzz so there's really no point in doing that. Thanks anyways. Mnx4

[iso240]

merging

[Real_Illusion]

I thought if that might work, to just forget the naptha part since the garbage might not be extracted into the alcohol. But I thought the naptha part was there for a reason. Does anyone know if you left out the petroleum ether part and just extracted the LSA into alcohol if little or no garbage would remain in the extract? If there's less than half than there's in the seeds, I don't really care, because its mostly the taste that I hate most, the nausea is over after an hour or two.

The logic seems to work...but it seems like one of those things that might be too good to be true....I dont understand why the P-Ether part is in alot of extractions if its unnecesary.

I suppose the worst that could happen is all the glycosides would be extracted, which wouldn't be any worse than eating the seeds. And if you put it in gelcaps it would be better since they taste like dirty toilet water.

[Mnx4]

Uhh, didn't mean to seem like a dick with my last post, but for some reason, it showed that I had no replies to my post. So i wrote that figuring i'd close it myself. Thanks for the replies though.

[anjatalker]

Well, Real_Illusion, if what you hate most is the taste of the seeds, then you can simply grind them in a coffee grinder or however you like and them put them into gel capsules and swallow them. That way you won't taste the seeds at all.

[Real_Illusion]

"Well, Real_Illusion, if what you hate most is the taste of the seeds, then you can simply grind them in a coffee grinder or however you like and them put them into gel capsules and swallow them. That way you won't taste the seeds at all."

Of course...but that could mean alot of pills to swallow. Not to mention the glycosides would still be in it. I want to find a way to extract it with stuff thats ACTUALLY easy to find (which does not include petroleum ether) and then put the extract into gel capsules. So far the only good ideas are the tea and forget the ether and just use ethanol.

[Mnx4]

Alrighty then, i'm going to do the cold water extraction over night. Actually, i'm going to try for 2 different ones, as i've got 5 packs flying saucers averaging 65 seeds a packet and 5 heavenly blues averaging about the same. I'm doing two seperate because the i've found that the heavenly blues is .02 mg of lsa, but i can't find anything on flying saucers. I don't want to mix just in case I find out it's like .03 or something, cuz that would mean 1 packet is close to a mild trip. If i use all 5 packets, that's about 600mg of lsa for the heavenly blues. I've read that 400+ is not a good idea, but i do have a high tolerance for many things. Should I not take the whole dosage? Or will it be safe since 100% of lsa will not be extracted from each seed?

Oh and i meant to ask. Would adding a dash of alcohol be a bad idea? I mean i know that it's also pretty polar but i don't know if it would damage the lsa or what? I've got a good bit of everclear so that would definately do the trick...

[ChemicalBro]

I don't understand the reason for the petroleum ether mentioned in the FAQ on erowid. The author says the effects can be felt almost immediately if the finished extract (an alcohol solution) is held in the mouth, which is why he claims that extraction method is good. Can anybody explain this or if other extracts could be felt immediately?

[morninggloryseed]

^^^^^^^^^^

I think that report is BS. Even when people IV phenethylamines (most of which take several hours to peak when eaten), they take a good hour to really hit. Putting LSAa under the tongue is not going to result in an "instant trip." Don't believe everything you read on the net. I think this was also the same clown that wrote you could make a psychedelic "wine" from the flowers.

[southernheathen]

Originally posted by Mnx4
If you can extract the good LSA stuff from the seeds with a polar solvent, such as alcohol or water, then it won't and can't extract the poison because it's nonpolar!

How long do you let sit in the water until all LSA is extracted?

[morninggloryseed]

Six hours is plenty of time. Stir often.