What do you think of this pre-loading and post-loading plan?

[PHD]

This is just a topic for discussion. I am not saying this plan is a good or a bad idea.
The multi-vitamin mentioned would have daily recommended allowance of vitamin C. The person would also be drinking plenty of fluids and eating normally (unless specified otherwise) for several days before and after taking MDMA.
3 days before = multi-vitamin and 50 mg 5-HTP
2 days before = multi-vitamin and 50 mg 5-HTP
1 day before = multi-vitamin and 50 mg 5-HTP
8 hours before = do not eat, either skip a meal or eat a light snack
2 hours before = multi-vitamin and 50 mg 5-HTP
0.5 hours before = 3 antacid tablets (Tums, Rolaids, etc.)
0 = oral dose of MDMA
first sign of comedown = multi-vitamin, 200 mg 5-HTP and some sort of antioxidants
before bed = 50 mg 5-HTP, a Prozac and eat a light meal/snack
1 day after = multi-vitamin and 50 mg 5-HTP
2 days after = multi-vitamin and 50 mg 5-HTP
3 days after = multi-vitamin and 50 mg 5-HTP
What do you think of this plan? Comments? Suggestions? Corrections?

[emkee]

personally i would add some vitamine C preferable ESTER-C: the non acidic and water and fatt solubale variaty. in quantities ranging from 500/1500 mg at multiple times. also some green tea now and then would be oke especially if you also smoke. it is an true fuel source of very bizarre anti oxidants.
Alpha Lipoic Acid sounds good but is a bit expensive and hard to get for me. and maybe some good absorbable vitamin-B complex, but that just a glimpse of the total packet.
i wonder if Chlorella an algue for nutrients and detoxification, Korean ginseng and other sacret herbs/plants and alike should prove usefull aswell as a healthy diet, rich in ecologic fruits and (raw) vegatables.
especially Noni or Morinda Citrifolia sounds very promising towards regeneration after MDMA damage. it should reactivate enzymes and fules the serotenergic system and is an powerfull anti-oxidant. but will probably have some interactions when taken in combination or short before or after a SSRI.
i myself also have a question i still wonder how close after an SSRI ,Fluvoxamine in my case, it is safe to take 5-htp and in which dosage.
as to furher edit the question if you or someone you now tried the combination of an SSRI and 5-htp, did they notice any negativs towards something like serotonin syndrom.
[ 24 August 2002: Message edited by: emkee ]

[Insatiable]

Where are you from emkee? I can get ALA for 4.99 per 30 50 mg tabs.
And yes, thats basicaly the plan I use whenever I roll (Minus the procaz occasionaly, as sometimes I jsut can't find any

[emkee]

from netherlands rotterdam as my profiles states me to be. and its lets put it mildly expensive and even somewhat rare to find, even worse if youre lookin for a reliable brand. and i am to lazy to order it from overseas.
but that doensn t matter as there are many other fish in the sea. Gingko Biloba, Schizandra and strange new smart nutrients like melatonin selegiline or ....
[ 24 August 2002: Message edited by: emkee ]
as an update on my first post me and my companion Scrollocs both took 50mg Fluvoxamine on 2:45 6 hours after first MDMA intake , the next day 13:00 50mg 5-htp and on 15:45 5omg 5-htp along with other healthy shit to help fueling serotonin. i definite feel no negativ effects from the SSRI & 5-HTP combination.
i hoped the 5-htp could take over from Fuvoxamine (Fluvoxamines half life is 19 hours but is absorbed fast in 2/8 hours) in comparison to Fluoxetine (Fluoxetines half life is 2/3 days and has active metabolites but is absorbed in 6/8 hours).
i know Fluvoxamine should be taken twice one 6 hours after and one when you wake up but i don t feel up to it somehow. probably something to do with dr*gs from reliable pharmaceutic industrials and there strange mechanism of action.
so how much more 5-htp should and can i take without possible negativs. if there are any.
[ 24 August 2002: Message edited by: emkee ]

[straightbangin]

I personally think that EVERYONE should take a multi vitamin EVERYDAY
and
If you role then..... you should take one 100mg
5-HTP at night before bed. If you know you're going to role on a certain day.... Take 2 100mg vitamins the day before you role, the night after you role and the night of the day after you role.
Also popping a prozac® as soon as you're about an hr away from coming down, is a good idea too.

[white buddha]

If you can get it, try taking Piracetam regularly a few weeks before you roll.

[NSU]

Catch, I'd say your routine is great, i'd just add multiple, well-spaced doses of Vitamin C as emkee suggested, along with some ALA....Apparently you need massive doses of antioxidants to counteract mdma neuro-toxicity, although I think there is not enough evidence of that yet.....
For me, pre-loading with 5-htp has never actually boosted my rolls, but it is essential for post-loading and preventing headaches, especially if, like me, you need larger quantities of mdma to get good effects...
[ 25 August 2002: Message edited by: NSU ]

[superbabydoc]

I would definitely add more antioxidant's, including at least 1000mg 1 hour prior, some vitamin e (say 500iu), alpha lipoic acid or another antioxidant if that is unavailable (I like grape seed extract as it is long lasting, even though it hasn't been studied for this purpose). I would repeat this on the comedown. Vitamin c has a short duration of action - only 3 or 4 hours if my memory serves me, hence the need to keep taking it. This is why I like grape seed extract, as it lasts over 24 hours apparently. It doesn't irritate your GI tract like vitamin c can.
Also, you want to be using a high quality multivitamin, with a broad range of ingredients in decent dosages. Some of the cheap multivitami's are pretty basic.
I would also use more 5HTP the day before, say 150mg, and I like 50-100mg during. You don't want to take much when you take the Prozac though due to the risk of interactions - 50mg is a good suggestion.

[cascadia]

white buddha - how much piracetam did you take the few weeks before? How about the day of? Did it really make a difference?

[white buddha]

I took 2400 mg of Piracetam a day for 3 weeks before rolling. I rolled the hardest I had ever rolled in my life, with "fish" pills. I was pretty much rolling the whole week, never had any comedown effects. I would light up a cigarette on my work break, and go back to work rolling again during that week.

[Infinite Jest]

Maybe add in magnesium 2 hours before, for jaw clenching?
And you want to take the prozac within about six hours of the MDMA, if I understand right.
Personally, I don't think I'd want to go 8 hours without eating before I rolled, but that's just me. (I don't think I could eat straight after rolling either, but I agree that it would be beneficial to try).
Also, I prefer to take 100mg/day of 5-HTP - again, its all about personal preference.

[goahead]

beside the pre-postloaders, you can use some peak enhancing strategies to get more "feel" out of a smaller dose of mdma , for example a halve dose...
- plugging / parachuting the beans
- a SMALL dose (halve your usual dose) G after 30 minutes
- a SMALL bump of K(60 mg), after 40 (you have to keep it really small as you
- some K or pot a the comedown, will bring you up again. G can also be used to retrigger a roll within 3-4 hours of dropping the bean but it is believed to increase the neurotoxity of the mdmam comedown....
Taking the G before the E in my experience prevents the E from "coming up" a bit

[goahead]

I really emphasize using the small doses of K and G since you will be using them together and both are CNS depressants......
This is a practice you should be very very carefull about , but if you do it right, keeping it small, you avoid most of the toxic/unwanted effects(like tolerance etc) of using one substance in higher amounts to roll hard :
e.g. 160 mg mdma or 100 mg mdma + 200 mg K
no rather have the 70 mg mdma + 60-80 mg K (adjust to bodyweight) and 1.5 gr GHB (lets just say, use the halve of a known liquid dose you know that fuckes you up in a good way)
Spread the damage and you may enjoy rolling and tweaking and whatever for a long time...

[Lustyhooray]

Hey, I don't know as much in detail as the previous ppl but what do you think about bananas before? I am a little inexperienced, just interested.
Any other simple dietary additions to help the buzz? (Beforehand I mean)
Cheers

[djremix]

its still being diiscussed over at dancesafe, but it seems very convncing that ghb is actually nueroprotective, in relation to the DA nuerotoxicity theory...

[emkee]

wether or not its harmfull always remains in the middle most probably caused by our own paranoia. which seems quite healthy. but ghb is indeed a wonderfull substance as described in this thread http://www.bluelight.ru/ubb/ultimate...&f=19&t=011035
some additional information on ESTER-C: vitamin-C in the body is converted into active metabolites. with ESTER-C part of the vitamin-C is allready metabolized in active metabolites (L-threonicacid, L-lyxonicacid, L-xylonicacid) makin its intake more effective. in addition its PH is neutral for who it concerns
research showed that ESTER-C is absorbed twice as fast and stays in the bodys tissue twice as long.
caused by the simple fact that normal vitamin-C is only water soluble it has some diffeculties reaching places only accessable for in fatt soluble substances, one of the metabolites of ESTER-C is fatt soluble. makin it much eassier to transport it to par example the brain the place we are most worried about.
incorparated in the formule i use are a mix of bioflavonoids (rutin, hesperidin, quercitin & citrin) which enhance the absorption of vitamin-C and have anti oxidant properties by themself. all together quite an improvement in comparison to regular vitamin-C.

[faris]

can you ever take too much 5htp before/after? money was a little tight this past time, and we didn't get any 5htp until the day of. but, we took 3 50mg caps every hour for 3 hours, ate something light in the late afternoon, and afterwards (so far) have only taken 2 caps for the post-load. multi-vitamins were also taken in conjunction with these, on a normal daily-basis. also, and i haven't done any searching up to this point, my brother-in-law swears by the B12 route. i was just interested if that was a myth or something recommended to take as well, or as in place of the 5htp?
faris

[Morlock]

Hi all...
I enjoy the varied information in pre/post load threads, it sometimes seems like sooo much though!
I wish there was a hard and fast regime! I'm starting to learn that having a healthy diet to begin with, and then trying different supplement regimes till ya find one that works for you is the best way...slow process, lol. I found this link
http://www.reuters.com/news_article....toryID=1347715
that I found interesting. Throw some honey in your Tea!!!

[PHD]

Several good points have been made. I am still working through some of the information. Other comments?

[E_Makes_the_heart_grow_fonder]

Well, I'm new to the pre/post loading thing, but the last time I post loaded.... I took 100mg 5-HTP a night for 3 weeks and I already take a multi-vitamin. I'm getting ready to roll tonight, and I've been continuing my prep from last time, but I have up the ante. For the past week I've been taking 250mg-300mg of 5-HTP a night, along with the vitamin. I've also bought some magnesium, but from what I heard, you can just preload on that right before drop.
For a postload, I took 250mg of 5-HTP and a melatonin.

[emkee]

one thing that i just getting interested in are enzymes. its very hard for me to determine their action on this point but there are probably capable of regenerating your body & brain. here is a piece of text about enzymes . "Neither vitamins, minerals or hormones can do any work -- without enzymes." i added this to show that the whole body is a system in which the weakest link defines the higest rate of healing.
and another thing i missed is the use of an antioxidant formule like this one but any other quality brand will do. this will garanty you have an whole mix of diff anti oxydants which you can supplement with some specialtys.
i just bought myself some biological dark honey to put in my green tea nice tip Morlock and add some fresh lemon juice in it. it seems lemon has some healthy qualities it contains an liver detoxifying something. men i can go like this for ever. emkee out!
[ 02 September 2002: Message edited by: emkee ]