The Big & Dandy 5-MeO-DALT Thread

**StuckMojo** · 26-06-2004 11:13

Welcome to the Big & Dandy 5-MeO-DALT Thread

External links:

[original post:]

[Edit]...Any feed back please...Im clueless

**ingo_2001** · 26-06-2004 16:21

"And there is still some possible ambiguity in that there is one mention in the literature that N,N-diallyltryptamine is active, but neither dosage nor route was mentioned. Maybe it should be DALT" from THIKAL

therefore it must be 5-MeO-DALT which is N,N-diallyltryptamine-5-methoxytryptamine in full. That all I can tell you.

**Anomie** · 29-06-2004 00:39

From what I have read (from a reliable source):

DOSAGE: 12 - 20 mg. orally

DURATION: 2 - 4 h

I am just posting this so that if someone decides to buy this stuff they don't start too high.

**Anomie** · 30-06-2004 03:27

No, the "reliable source" i mentioned is NOT a chemical supplier, just second hand information from shulgin, delivered at another forum by someone who has proven themself to be reputable.

I think it would be OK to post the effects, in the interest of harm reduction.

Just remember that this is a really new, and untested compound, even as far as research chemicals are concerned. Be safe. Use a scale.

#xxx 5-METHOXY-DALT; TRYPTAMINE, N,N-DIALLYL-5-METHOXY; N,N-
DIALLYL-5-METHOXYTRYPTAMINE; INDOLE, 3-[2-(DIALLYLAMINO)ETHYL]-5-
METHOXY; 3-[2-(DIALLYLAMINO)ETHYL]-5-METHOXYINDOLE

SYNTHESIS: Synthesis section removed by moderator. Wait for the book and buy it!

DOSAGE: 12 - 20 mg. orally

DURATION: 2 - 4 h

QUALITATIVE COMMENTS (from various sources): (with 10 mg. orally)
"I am looking at everything through someone's open friendly eyes,
not mine. I would like to go through life like this if others
saw me as OK. I am 10 feet tall, my pulse is 72 but uneven, and
light-headed is a better describer of where I am than
psychedelicized."

(with 16 mg. orally) "The music was fabulous, as was the sex and
neither of us had a problem with orgasm. But there was a total
lack of imagery -- less than I would normally have to the music
when unstoned, so there might have been an actual suppression. I
was pretty much baseline by the third hour."

(with 20 mg. orally) "It's coming on strongly in 15 minutes, and
at the half hour point I am at a +++ with eyes closed -- but
nothing with them open! No hang-over."

EXTENSIONS AND COMMENTARY: The rapid onset and rapid drop-off of
5-MeO-DALT is remarkable. With oral administration, it is common
to be aware of the effects in less than 15 minutes and to be
fully there at the half-hour point. This implies absorption into
the blood stream directly from the stomach and rapid metabolic
destruction.

To my total suprise, this compound is not in the scientific
literature, at least as searched by Chem. Abstracts. Its
synthesis and its pharmacology have never been published.

There are a number of modifications of the two double bonds
ont there on the nitrogen alkyl groups that would be interesting
to explore. If they were changed from double bonds to triple
bonds, one would have 5-methoxy-N,N-dipropargyltryptamine, or 5-
MeO-DPRT. I have made a little bit of it but it was quite impure
and difficult to clean up. The complexity of the GCMS patterns
suggested that there might be some chemistry going on between the
two propargyl groups.

Another direction possible for modifying the structure
would be to relocate the oxygen in indole ring over to the 4-
position. 4-Methoxytryptamine is commercially available, and it
should be directly substitutable for the 5-methoxytryptamine used
in this synthetic process giving rise to 4-MeO-DALT. Yet further
out, what about starting the 4-benzyloxytryptamine and walking
the same path? The product could be easily stripped of the
benzyl ether by the usual catalytic hydrogenation, giving rise to
the diallyl analogue of psilocin, 4-HO-DALT. I would wager a ten
dollar bet that the acetate ester of this material, 4-AcO-DALT
would be in the brain within minutes of swallowing the pill.

There are a lot of interesting extensions, but all of them
would call for careful chemistry. And, of course, the essential
care of tasting new things in very small increasing doses. Some
of these could be extremely potent.

**CatfishRivers** · 09-07-2004 02:22

The thing that is most interesting to me is that 5-MeO-DALT is orally active and has a rapid, yet short duration. I am hopefult that the future will unveil psychedelic compounds with an even shorter duration aand rapid onset. The worker bees need a weeknight psychedelic that lets you still get up in the morning and grind the cogs for the man...

**CatfishRivers** · 15-07-2004 02:47

That is a good point liteage. I just read today that one of the hardest things for a teacher to know is what NOT to teach...and everyone who posts publically is teaching something on some level, whether it be about the nature of 5-MeO-DALT or the nature of the author's sense of self. It is rather tricky when trying to be objective about highly subjective data, such as reporting back the "effects" of a drug (a better word might actually be the "affects" of the drug experience), which is why I would encourage folks to be mindful and aware of the language they use to describe and discuss psychedelics. Because there are less mature individuals reading these posts who haven't had the benefit of becoming self aware enough to be more careful about their drug explorations.

The danger here is that 5-MeO-DALT has such precious little information regarding human bioassays of it (outside of what Dr. Shulgin has made sorta-public), coupled with the human passion for novelty, not to mention the bragging rights of being the brave nut who tried it in the beginning, before everyone else. Sometimes I wish there was a way to make folks have to move through certain precautionary/informative/rights of passage type scenarios before they could gain access to these substances...but it's da real world and whateryagonnadoooo,eh?

**ppirc** · 15-07-2004 19:04

Originally posted by perceptionist
Damn, some one needs to write a trip report quick....

I will be dosing this substance tomorrow afternoon and will have a trip report done and posted by the early evening. I will try to give as much details and descriptions as I can as I'd imagine alot of people would be interested in reading about it.

Back on topic, I'd still like to find out what forum that information on 5-MeO-DALT from Shulgin's new book was posted -- it seems like the only place to find any further information about the substance. Even searches on google.com for this new RC turn up nothing more than some site in another languare (that doesn't seem to offer any information, anyhow).

Cheers

***TM-321*** · 16-07-2004 06:09

Im really curious about this one myself. The reports from the Shulgin excerpt seemed to be quite intrigueing. Ive managed to procure some myself and the tooth fairy is to deliver it soon. Ill be anxiously awaiting the aforementioned fellows trip report.

In the meantime. Doesnt it seem a bit strange that DALT itself hasnt been documented at all? It must be active. I think this would be the only tryptamine in which the 5-meo was made known before the non 5-meo version. Interesting.

^^^ Oh an Kat. No offense bro but kinetic beat me to the punch. You are pretty on an off with 5-meo-amt. Good times. =]

**Gorgon222** · 16-07-2004 06:21

Info on DALT has been documented and was released at the same time as the info for 5-meo-DALT. It was also synthed around 1960 apparently.

**ppirc** · 16-07-2004 07:17

Originally posted by Gorgon222
Info on DALT has been documented and was released at the same time as the info for 5-meo-DALT. It was also synthed around 1960 apparently.

By saying "it was also synthed around 1960" are you saying that the 5 Methoxy (5-MeO) variety of DALT was synthesized around 1960? I ask this because I was under the impression that 5-MeO-DALT was just invented by Shulgin, according to the entry for it mentioned on a previous page of this thread, unless I read it wrong.

I'm curious, what board are you guys getting this information on new entries for this new book from? Other than this thread on Bluelight, I can't find or locate information about this new substance anywhere.

Come late morning I'll be dosing; I will be preparing myself tonight.

**morninggloryseed** · 16-07-2004 08:19

5-MeO-DALT apprears to be a new chemical. It is unclear if Shulgin invented or not but it does not seem to have been in any literature until now (or when the new book is released actually.)

**MagickalKat777** · 16-07-2004 08:27

Originally posted by ppirc
By saying "it was also synthed around 1960" are you saying that the 5 Methoxy (5-MeO) variety of DALT was synthesized around 1960? I ask this because I was under the impression that 5-MeO-DALT was just invented by Shulgin, according to the entry for it mentioned on a previous page of this thread, unless I read it wrong.

I'm curious, what board are you guys getting this information on new entries for this new book from? Other than this thread on Bluelight, I can't find or locate information about this new substance anywhere.

Come late morning I'll be dosing; I will be preparing myself tonight.

From the entry on DALT:

"As far as I can determine, there has
only been a single human trial of DALT mentioned in the published
clinical literature. This was by Dr. Stephen Szara long ago,
in 1960 plus or minus a year or two."

As for the forum that the information came from, they have asked numerous times not to be talked about here, therefore, my lips are sealed.

**zukunft** · 16-07-2004 08:36

The entry sums up,

"So, the early and only discovery report of DALT mentioned neither the synthetic preparation, the dosage taken, the route of administration, nor the effects observed. It merely stated that the activity had been found. I have explored it up to 42 milligrams, I was to a +1 in an hour, back to base line at the fourth hour, and there was nothing that caught my fancy."

**ppirc** · 16-07-2004 23:47

My trip report has been posted, for those interested...

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthrea...hreadid=148851

**~~xbnmx~~** · 19-07-2004 00:41

#xxx DALT; TRYPTAMINE, N,N-DIALLYL; N,N-DIALLYLTRYPTAMINE;
INDOLE, 3-[2-(DIALLYLAMINO)ETHYL]; 3-[2-(DIALLYLAMINO)ETHYL]-
INDOLE

DOSAGE: >40 milligrams orally.

DURATION: unknown

QUALITATIVE COMMENTS:

EXTENSIONS AND COMMENTARY: As far as I can determine, there has
only been a single human trial of DALT mentioned in the published
clinical literature. This was by Dr. Stephen Szara long ago,
in 1960 plus or minus a year or two. Most of the literature
papers that make reference to N,N-diallyltryptamine are reviews
of the structure-activity relationships of the psychedelics, and
thus they do not present any new human data. It is an
interesting trip to work backwards from these reviews to the
original statements that were made.
Most listed potencies are based on the generalization
that the activity of DALT was similar to that of DMT. Thus when
DMT is listed at 60 milligrams, this number appears as the
potency of DALT. And if the range of 60-100 milligrams is given
for DMT, then DALT is often stated to be at the mid-point, or 80
milligrams. I must apologize in that I am equally guilty of just
this kind of sloppy bookkeeping. All this is somewhat supported
superficially by the numbers in a chapter that Szara published in
1970 in Efron's "Psychotomimetic Drugs." In Figure I, there is
stated that a psychotropic dose of diallyltryptamine was "60 mg
i.m. or p.o." but the drug is not mentioned in the text or the
discussion. The yet earlier (and first) text mention of DALT is
in a paper by Szara and Hearst in 1962 (Annals of the New York
Academy of Science, 96 pp 134-142). There it is stated: "As
reported by Szara in Milan in 1957, administration of
diethyltryptamine (DET) and dimethyltryptamine (DMT) lead to
rapidly developing sympathomimetic effects , as well as to
perceptual, emotional and thinking disturbances similar to those
that result after administration of LSD-25 or mescaline. However
the psychological effects persist for only 1 hour in the case of
DMT and for about 2.5 hours in the case of DET; in contrast LSD
and mescaline have a much longer (6 to 8 hour) duration." There
is then added the short phrase, "The dipropyl and diallyl
derivatives have similar activities in man, as we found
recently." I finally found the Milan report of Szara: it is in
"Psychotropic Drugs," edited by Garattini and Ghetti (Elsevier,
1957). There, he describes four personal experiences: Three are
with DMT at 60, 60 and 75 milligrams, all i.m. and one was with
DET (also called T-9) at 60 milligrams, i.m. No mention is made
of diallyltryptamine.
So, the early and only discovery report of DALT mentioned
neither the synthetic preparation, the dosage taken, the route of
administration, nor the effects observed. It merely stated that
the activity had been found. I have explored it up to 42
milligrams, I was to a +1 in an hour, back to base line at the
fourth hour, and there was nothing that caught my fancy.

edited - I know its from a popularly known source, but we'd prefer if there was no synthesis talk here on bl. - atlas

**morninggloryseed** · 20-10-2004 01:00

Shulgin chose to make this entry (from his forthcoming book) available because 5-MeO-DALT had been circulating on the grey market anf there was no other information. That was very nice of him. No more is available because we just have to wait for the new book! The forum above does not wish to be mentioned here. It is an invite only forum. Chalk it up to internet politics I guess. Nothing shady...we will just have to wait for the rest!

**Blowmonkey** · 20-10-2004 01:04

Originally posted by morninggloryseed
Shulgin chose to make this entry (from his forthcoming book) available because 5-MeO-DALT had been circulating on the grey market anf there was no other information. That was very nice of him. No more is available because we just have to wait for the new book!

I don't think there was any 5-MeO-DALT circulating on the grey market before Shulgin and anonymous had made the entry available, if I remember correctly it happened shortly after.

**morninggloryseed** · 20-10-2004 02:12

5-MeO-DALT was definitely on the "grey market" before Shulgin allowed the 5-MeO-DALT entry out of the bag.

**psy-marshal** · 11-04-2005 20:58

I really like 5-meo-dalt. I've tried it orally in doses up to 50 mgs. and as per a lot of the chems, I found the Shulgin listed doses far too low. 50 mgs. was a nice buzz which lasted in total about 4 hours. BUT, I discovered with this one that smoking is definitely the way to go. I plan to write a trip report now that I am finally back online. Smoking it made it come on right away (I found it still takes about 1-1.5 hours to come on orally). The instant elevation of emotions and wonderful body feeling are not like anything else I have had before. I think it is the body buzz that got me the most. It was like MDMA used to be before I got used to what it would feel like. I don't want to start spreading more rumours about this being a replacement for x as one guy was accused of on here a while ago, because it is not, but it did have some things in common in the best sense of the word.

**fastandbulbous** · 11-04-2005 21:36

I've got my own reservations about 5-methoxy DALT, as most of the 5-methoxy compounds I've tried didn't agree with my intestines (5-methoxy AMT, foxy and 5-methoxy DMT), but years ago, I came to be in possession of some N,N-diallyltryptamine which a friend conjoured into existance (it's not a controlled substance in the UK) and it is not unlike DPT in effects when smoked or snorted - possibly a touch more potent weight for weight. I've noticed that DALT hasn't appeared on the RC market - possibly due to its close similarity to DPT - but I'm sure given time it will. Orally, I'd say it's again most probably more like DPT than anything else, so 40mg by that route isn't going to do much without some help from MAOI's

**fastandbulbous** · 23-05-2005 17:05

Well, despite my reservations about 5-methoxytryptamines, I gave 5-methoxy-N,N-diallyltryptamine a go for the first time yesterday. I was very pleasantly surprised...

15mg produced a slightly stimulated state, but unlike that caused by amphetamines (more like somewhere between methylphenidate and MDA). It came on fast (alert at 10 mins - chugging along happily at 40 mins), but to my surprise, no gut troubles. I can see why people compare it to MDMA in the initial effects it produces.

I think peoples dissapointments with this compound stem from the fact that they're expecting a full blown 'oot ma heed' tryptamine type effect. I'd say this is to the tryptamine psychedelics what 2C-T-21 is to the phenethylamines - it's never going to be an earthshaker, but once you accept it for what it is, it's damn pleasant (and in no way threatening like how psilocybin or 5-methoxy DMT can be)

**nanobrain** · 29-08-2005 13:19

its for ichthyophiles, ie fishheads, roly poly fishheads.

the 10mg dude was feeling fishheaded, not lightheaded.

vaporising ~mgs makes you feel glasssy, swimmy and 3-d like, as in from the inside of an aquarium.

psychologically off baseline, but psychedelically lacking, no enhancement of anything but the feeling you are in an aquarium. which, ahem, i was not in.

its certainly active, but nothing noteworthy - beats a poke in the eye with a hot stick, i suppose.

addendum. another experiment with ~5mg vaporised triggered a CH episode. CH in an aquarium.

Poseidon's rusty, broken, enbarnacled trident through the left eye socket, twist, withdraw, repeat. so a poke in the eye with a hot stick may be better after all.

no desire to sample via oral.

the material which was a very light off white about the time this thread was started is now the color of brown sugar. long term stability appears to be an issue.

**Air** · 03-02-2007 22:31

I've never really been tripping on this substance. Just got that feeling of something being different, nothing else, on a 20mg dose. Never got around to try it at higher doses, but I just might do that sometime.

**~~Gaian Planes~~** · 03-02-2007 22:34

I'm a bit scared off by the massive dose required to trip compared to other common 5-meo's.

The fact that 5-meo's are agonist to receptors other than HT2 and produce signs of collateral bodyload/distress is enough to steer me away from this one (for now at least). But it does look interesting.

**egor** · 03-02-2007 22:36

Originally Posted by samadhi_smiles

I'm a bit scared off by the massive dose required to trip compared to other common 5-meo's.

The fact that 5-meo's are agonist to receptors other than HT2 and produce signs of collateral bodyload/distress is enough to steer me away from this one (for now at least). But it does look interesting.

That was one of my primary concerns with 5-meo-dalt also, but in all the info I have found, there are very few mentions of negative effects, other than the massive ooverdose on erowid.

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