My apologies if there's already been a thread like this.
From what I can tell, most seasoned opiate veterans seem to prefer either natural or synthetics. Some people claim that an opioid is an opioid, but I disagree.
For me, natural opiates/oids have much more of a heavy, body-load type feeling, almost as if gravity is exerting an unnaturally strong force on me. I get less euphoria from them, and my thinking seems muddled.
With synthetics, my body seems somehow lighter, I get much more euphoric, and creative processes, like writing and drawing, come more easily to me, along with ideas I may not have had were I sober.
What do you think? Do you find a personal difference in how you respond to naturals vs. synthetics? What do you think could account for this difference?
Thread: Opiates: Natural vs. Synthetic
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- Join Date
- Apr 2008
yeah i agree with u, there is a definete difference between the two.
For me, fully synthetic opiates like fentanyl give me a different high, and no nod. While a natural opiate, like morphine (well i think its natural :/ give me a more intense nod. Also natural like codeine and morphine are more itchy, were a synthetic like fent doesnt make me itch. Syntetics are also more speedy and make me talkative
Also, if the categories are strictly syn vs natural I guess syn is better. But I'm not 100% sure I'm classifying some right
So, correct me if I'm wrong...
1) I think oxycodone is a semi synthetic, so synthetic for this discussion?
2) morph and codeine : natural
3) opium: self explainatory
4) heroin: semi syn?? (kinda confused on this cuz one)
5) fent: full syn (as are fent analogues)
6) k4/dilaudid : syn
I'm guessing on these but it seems logical, eh?
I personally like semi-synthetics. These include hydromorphone, hydrocodone, oxycodone, oxymorphone, etc...
Natural: Euphoric, releases histimes, longer lasting.
Semi-synthetic: Extremely eurphoric, short acting,and little histime release.
Synthetic: Mild eurphoria, no histime release, long half-life.
^Hm, interesting point, about the semi-synthetics. I usually just lump those in with fully synthetic, but my favorite opiates are: fentanyl, oxycodone, and levorphanol, so I think I lean farther toward the synthetic than semisynthetic.
I didn't know that fully synthetic opioids didn't release histamine. I know that I don't really get an itch with levorphanol, so that makes sense. However, I have gotten the itch from fentanyl, what would you classify that one as?
The difference is Histamine release. Natural opiates and semi-synthetic opioids derived from Morphine are very high in Histamine release, accounting for the itchy scratchy dopey feeling and firework rush.
Codeine and Thebaine derived semi-synthetics (Oxycodone) and full synthetics (Methadone, Meperidine, Fentanyl) are low in Histamine release. They are more energetic and 'clean' feeling.
Histamine seems to be the main difference between them. The studies I've seen point to Morphine/Heroin (i.e. the first category) as being more pleasurable / better accepted than any of the synthetics (second category) to addicts and former addicts.
Notice too that in most countries Morphine is really the only high Histamine release opioid prescribed heavily. Nicomorphine in some countries, Heroin in some, etc. In general theres a much heavier reliance on synthetics in pain management and other medical applications for opioids (IBS, severe cough, etc).
This is probably because the codeine/thebaine derived semi-synthetics and full synthetics are seen as less euphoric/have less abuse potential. Although every opioid down to Diphenoxylate/Codeine/Propoxyphene and so on have high, absolute abuse potential.
EDIT: Histamine is still released, just not as much with some semi and all synthetics. A big shot of Morphine has an almost unpleasant, intense burning pins and needles sensation. I don't know of any synthetic that does this. The itch from Morphine/Heroin is much more severe than that of Oxycodone/Fentanyl/Levorphanol. Sometimes I drew blood scratching so much from the former.
These are great responses so far. I've tried posing the same question in another board, only to hear people tell me that "all opiates/opioids are pretty much the same and I can't tell the difference."
I'm learning alot from these posts, keep em coming!
The anecdotal evidence is all over the place. A big reason why Heroin is the largest clandestinely produced opioid is that it is so well accepted among users. Morphine is much cheaper and easier to produce on a massive scale with third world farmers and organized crime syndicates- so why do they go to the trouble to synth Heroin instead? It has similar profile to Morphine, but when taken produces a smoother rush and more euphoria, it's just a better version of Morphine in terms of pleasure for most people.
In the late 70's to mid 80's Fentanyl and Meperidine analogues were synthed and put on the street as Heroin, but weren't well accepted. From a financial standpoint, those that originally did this made a mint. Billions of doses could be made from one medium cook on a much smaller scale than that of Heroin- which requires international trafficking, farmers, poppy fields, lots of chemicals, lots of people. The reason why AMF or 3-methyl-Fentanyl aren't made on the black market with any regularity is that people prefer Heroin. Desomorphine, Nicomorphine, most of the possible semi-synthetic derivatives of Morphine would probably be just as well accepted as Diacetylmorphine. But compared to these Heroin is simpler to mass produce.
Some synthetics might be more pleasurable, more euphoric than Heroin, lots of people love Dextromoramide and Ketobemidone, but you aren't going to see them on the black market outside of those extremely rare prescriptions in a few European countries.
Heroin passes into the brain more easily, and is about twice the strength of morphine (I've heard), which is part of the reason it's more enjoyed by users.
I've always figured that part of the equation is that the first type of opiate you get into, you'll stick with. So if you start with codeine/morphine/heroin, you'll enjoy natural/more natural semi-synths more. I started with hydro and oxycodones, and I enjoy (semi-)synthetics more. But after these responses, I'm starting to think that most people enjoy the more natural opioids more, and I'm in the minority.
I mean, I'd probably love black market rare European drugs more than an unlimited supply of H.
01-10-2008 04:13Originally Posted by pallidamors
In the 60's and 70's, Rx abuse was rapidly entrenched in rural Virginia, Oxycodone was one of if not the most popular RX drug of abuse. In the 90's when OxyContin debuted and Percocet came back in force, Appalachia again developed an Oxycodone abuse problem. The media gave this 'Hillbilly Heroin' phenom a lot of attention, ignoring the fact that RX Opioid abuse, specifically with Oxycodone, had already become part of the regions culture 20 years earlier.
Theres a lot more to opiates and all that goes with it than you'd think.
01-10-2008 04:21Originally Posted by Tchort
- Join Date
- Sep 2008
my favourite opiates when I was addicted for 3 years were:
1) MS-Contin - morphine
2) Dilaudids -hydromorphone
Oxy-contin, Demerol, codeine were my last resorts if nothing else was available. Thank God Heroin wasn't available.
I loved the intense tight hug/rush immediately following Dilaudid IV the most.
I hated the pins and needles from morphine but loved how long I could go on one shot! Morphine was my drug of choice then for the fact that I could wake up sick, fix up some M and be good til later in the afternoon... Saved money too as it was cheap and undesirable as Oxy's and Dillies were the most sought after.
Codeine made me bunged up and itchy- I disolved the codeine in warm water and filtered the acetaminophen so I didn't scald my liver with a whole bottle worth of Tylenol... Extraction worked good with Perc's to for a last resort.
Oxy's are crap if you ask me. They are too expensive for one. There is no rush and they have no legs once you break the time release when dissolving the tablets. An 80 is 30$ on the street! 200mg morphine is 20$ and it lasts.
I never fucked with Fentanyl as too many ppl die from that stuff. There's a certain way to prepare it for IV that I wasn't aware of so I smoked some Fentanyl tokes and ate the patch.
Sorry if you dont like my long reply. I tried to keep it short!
Yea, I"m going to have to go with synthetic. I say that because I'm not a huge fan of Morphine. Morphine has to much a head-high and often has to many sedate qualities-- at least for me. I wish i liked Morphine more because its so easy to get in the form of pods and seeds. The only time i use Morphine/pods is when i am out of my DOC. They sure save my butt but Morphine makes me lazy, i don't want to do much when i take it and i prefer a speedier high.
Damn i can barely stop nodding. I HATE NODDING. that Ativan i took last night ruined my fent high today darn it lol. And the two together have got nodding big time, which i don't like. I'd rather be up doing crap. Oh well.. I forgot how long Atians half life is, darn it Can you believe it's been 24 hours since i took those Atvan and i only barely feel the whole 50mcg patch i did--sublingual. Don't worry, i have a tolerance and a 50 mcg patch is norma for me. Usually i do a half, or a full patch or somewhere in between. never did more than ne patch and don't plan on it.
So yea, my ick is synthetic. I actually know a few people who only like the natural opiates but hey, if that floats your boat, more power to you!!
- Join Date
- Sep 2006
Here is a list of the opiates I've tried with the first one being the one I enjoyed the most and the last one being the one I most disliked.
Yeah I know, some of you may be wondering why I like heroin the least and I'm not really sure why. I've only done it twice (never IV'd anything) and both times I didn't like it so I never bothered to buy it again. I'm not sure if it was the quality or what.
So I guess my answer to the question is that I prefer synthetics over natural.
01-10-2008 04:56Originally Posted by sunset117
3. yes, I suppose
If it has the morphine structure in it, its semi-synthetic. If not, its fully synthetic. And of course, the natural ones are those found in the opium poppy. There are many, but the only two that matter for recreational use are morphine and codeine.
There is something about the full synthetics like fent that jsut dont do it for me. its no warmth, just str8 cold euphoria. Honestly, i really like morphine.
^see, its the straight euphoria and semi-altered thought processes that I most enjoy, most semi-synths that i have tried and the natural ones don't deliver. I just feel so much more creative on synthetic opiods and select semi-synths, matched with the euphoria, that's exactly what I want out of a drug.
01-10-2008 09:49Originally Posted by william1985
- Join Date
- Apr 2008
I am a little confused by the full-synthetics. As JC confirmed, Fentanyl is a 'full' synthetic, as are the analogues, what are other examples?
Having used mainly codeine, morphine and oxycodone I can say that the latter shits all over the first two.
Lighter, happier, more sensual and stimulating, and easier to come off.
^any fentanyl analogue, and levorphanol. I guess maybe tramadol would also qualify since it binds opioid receptors?
* Pethidine (meperidine)
* Levomethadyl Acetate (LAAM)
* Loperamide (used for diarrhoea, does not cross the blood-brain barrier)
* Diphenoxylate (used for diarrhoea, does not appreciably cross the blood-brain barrier)
- Join Date
- Apr 2008
^kinda covers it, lol
haha, ok, thats one very good reason why mr blonde is the mod here...
but still, what is YOUR personal choice on this class of drugs? Do you even notice a difference? or am I and all the previous responders full of shit and "an opioid is an opioid"?
Pretend this is Rush Limbaugh (or the most relevant conservative, opiate-addled pundit of your choice) and sound off here!
The only opioids as in fully synthetics ive had are propoxyphene, tramadol (guess thats a opioid?), meperidine, and fentanyl. As for opiates ive had codeine, oxycodone, morphine, hydromorphone. I think thats it anyway thats all i can remember at the moment atleast.
Id have to say that in terms of killing pain which is what i most want fentanyl is by far the best. It's pretty euphoric as well but not as good as hydromorphone in terms of euphoria.
So it's kind of a hard one for me. Guess it's a toss up.
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
- Milwaukee (Currently) and it seems that I'm always back home in Chi..
I'd most certainly have to say the semi-synthetics.. diethyl-morphine.. hydromorph.. oxymorph.. hands down my favorites.. but I sure as hell would love to get my hands on some (synthetic opiate/s) fentanyl and some fentanyl analogs..
but I guess I'm just more of a somewhat 'natural' opiate addict.. something about morphine and the like are what I love most..
01-10-2008 19:17Originally Posted by pallidamors
Well it is really, really hard...