Didn't 2 mg d-amp + 5 mg selegiline also present unusually strong (like, BP dangerously high strong) fx for you one time, IIRC? You might respond to selegiline + [stuff] idiosyncratically.Originally Posted by weather of pork
SO...this exemplifies why such combos must be treated 'Shulginesquely'!
So shouldn't MDAI be an MAO substrate of some kind? Would B or A be preferential?
Thread: The Big & Dandy MDAI Thread
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Neuroscience and Pharmacology Discussion
Philosophy and Spirituality
- Join Date
- Sep 2001
- Norfair, Zebes
yes thats true, i also have very limited experience/tolerance to MDx compounds or other serotonin releasers.
Following this second experience with MDAI, I can definitely say that the 50mg + 150mg dosage range is the high end of the scale. Indications are that MDAI is more potent than MDMA; for example, the Nichols paper on combining MDAI with dopaminergic agents has data that indicates lower levels of 5-HT for MDAI 3hrs after equal doses of each, implying that more serotonin was pumped out and metabolized/more downregulation occured. The difference isn't huge, though.
Regarding the comedown...this experience is tainted by the strong fear that I had induced some sort of bizarre renal toxicity, not because the pain symptoms actually fit that diagnosis, but because it was too hard to believe I actually had kidney stones strike on both sides within 15 minutes of one another. Plus I wasn't expecting the water retention aspect, so I considered that a symptom at the time. That said, based on my mood the next day and even my general physical state after the trip, and attempting to separate out the negativity associated with the feeling that I had fucked up my kidneys...the comedown seemed very mild.
I think there are two good reasons why I found it so tolerable, but it may not be for others so far: 1) 5-HTP supplementation, both to "top off" stores before/during the experience and 100-200mg taken afterwards/next day, and 2) the wonderful antidepressant effects of Selegiline.
In all, MDAI has a very good, trustworthy feeling about it to me, most notably because of this general lack of body load with simple supplementation even at high doses. bk-MDMA is also rather kind, but has a nastier psychological comedown for me--though I'm not sure I've tried 5-HTP for that, believing methylone to be primarily dopaminergic. MDMA, even with very comprehensive pre/postload supplementation (selegiline, piracetam, 5-HTP, tyrosine, antioxidants, etc) definitely has a higher toll. Finally, a properly supplemented MDMA comedown is a walk in the park for me compared to the acute (~24hrs) comedown from AMT or bk-MBDB.
- Join Date
- Nov 2009
Hi everyone, would MDPV be a good DARI instead of selegiline to use with MDAI to achieve the MDMA experience.
Or have I missed something with all the chemicals here
- Join Date
- Nov 2009
Although I haven't had any more trials with MDAI due to starting an SNRI, I think that MDAI is easily one of my favorite drugs. I have limited experience with MDMA (strong ~3 times, weak or weird ~3 times as well), but I like this feeling better than that of MDMA, which to me is a little too stimulating for my liking. This one puts me to sleep maybe 3 or 4 hours max after taking it. It's a very nice chill out drug, with no hangover effects at all. Also, I've able to get an erection and orgasm on MDAI (the only drug other than low-dose opiates that I can do that on). Tactile sensation was amazing, and I enjoyed just touching myself all over. I was also able to cum without orgasming. Now I just need to be able to do the opposite!
Edit: One time I tried a small amount of MDPV + MDAI, and I think I could have fallen asleep within 2 or 3 hours or dosing. Now, I may have used too small a dose of MDPV to feel it (tiny smudge on thumb), but I feel like this might have some potential for helping to induce sleep. I'm interested in whether anyone has used this as a sort of "come down" drug to use at the end of psychedelics or stimulants. It seems like the sleepiness at the end might be enough to help you go to sleep. I think a nice, relaxing euphoria would be a perfect remedy for the uncomfortable residual stimulation of stim binging. I'd love to try this out myself, but alas, I am limited for the moment. Any experiences with this sort of thing out there?
Last edited by Sturnam; 12-11-2009 at 07:17. Reason: forgot what I came here to ask
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
this stuff didn't really impress me. afterwards i thought it might go well with one's morning coffee as a little mood enhancer heh.
Also, what's your experience with other empathogenic drugs? (which ones, how often, and then dose used for each substance?)
Like many other people have said, I think if you are expecting a good MDMA roll then you're probably not gonna be satisfied with MDAI. But if you think of it as a new chemical, with no expectations, then I think it's a lot better, and more enjoyable. You can explore its own unique features, which personally I love.
Plus, have I mentioned the tactile enhancement is SO awesome!? I can never usually get horny on any drug anyway, with the exception of opiates. But for MDAI, it's really easy for me to get full wood and orgasm. Also, for better or worse, MDAI is pretty damn short acting for me, which means its a little more recreational for me. MDMA is a much more intense and private thing for me, which doesn't lend itself well to weekend fun. Whereas MDAI you can just feel good from, without any overly intense emotional bonding.
It also doesn't create any problems for going to sleep. IME, at least, you can take it at 10 P.M. and easily be asleep by 2 am, maybe 3am at worst depending on dose. That's always huge plus for me, because I absolutely hate any kind of stim come down and the exhausted yet wired insomnia. And then when I wake up, no hangover!
Edit: Lol, I've edited this so much. MDPV will do that, as well as make time disappear on BL. it's later than I expected.
Sorry, OT thoughts. Anyways, I kinda wonder what kinda of abuse/possible addiction we'll see from this. I suppose most people don't think its that great, but the more I think about and remember the experience, the more I love it. So does anyone think we'll see slighter higher rates of abuse or addiction with this compound? It's pretty damn rare with MDMA, so I'm not expecting much, but I am thinking that there might be at least a few stories because most people don't seem to have any come-down, which combined with just a few hours of lucid, strong euphoria that fills up your entire body.
Lastly, I was wondering if anyone has tried this compound a few days in a row, or at least spaced closer together, and noticed any tolerance? I assume there will be some, as the compound is probably depleting a fair portion of vesicles with serotonin, but I was wondering if it might follow opioid-esque tolerance, slowly over a few weeks or more with daily, but constant dosing, or whether it might follow psychedelic tolerance where you generally can't do it for a few days afterwards, or at least you have to escalate the dose more and more each day.
Last edited by Sturnam; 12-11-2009 at 13:09. Reason: still very awake
This link tells the story of someone who used Methylone routinely for a few years (take note, this is not a link about MDAI per se, just one of the other RC entactogens with similar effects but using different receptor affinities).
Here's what he has to say about repeated usage:
One of the magics about this drug is that you can take it 3 days in a row, without upping your dose.
That is indeed a dangerous feed. That means that I could actually party Thursday, Friday, Saturday without feeling too bombed in school on Monday. And in the start I could even make homework Sunday. But as time went on, and I took it more and more, at some point I began to have the feeling of nothingness afterwards. Feeling of NOT wanting to do ANYTHING other than watch movies and sleep. This feeling would most often leave after a day or 2.
Another magic is that you can keep re-dosing for hours.
I could always re-dose in the start, actually I could always re-dose until lately, for 2 whole years of hardcore use I could re-dose as much and almost as long as I wanted to (bout 12 hours straight) and almost keep the same effect all the way trough.
There’s almost no tolerance build.
For 2 whole years I took it almost every weekend, often more than one day, and the dose only raised from 150mg to 250mg and I felt almost the same euphoria every time.
But a few weeks ago, the tolerance finally hit me! I took the same amount as I always did, and nothing happened, after about 40min. I took the same dose again and almost nothing happened. I thought that this was just a onetime thing, and so I tried the week after, exactly the same happened, and the next week after again, I had at last felt the tolerance. Now I have to take about 500mg to really gain effect, and that’s not something I want, so I have stopped, but that’s a lot harder than I thought it would be, now I even want it in the working days, before I could wait for the weekend. I miss it.
I've been treating it as a "work hard, play hard" aid and have been splitting my weeks into two halves:
3-4 days in a row: Follow a Nootropic regimen (Alpha-GPC, Fish Oil, "Chocamine", Piracetam, Oxiracetam, Bacopa Monnieri, Huperzine A, L-Deprenyl, and sometimes Rhodiola Rosea), and study harder than ever before in my life. I saved up enough money to keep my rent and bills at bay for a couple months, that I may have the time I need to finish coding an approximative Physics/Chemistry/AI hybrid engine project of mine, built for modern GPGPU massively parallel processors. During these days, I mercilessly push my creativity and concentration to their limits.
3-4 days in a row: Take ~60mg MDAI as a base early in the day. Read a good book, go out and have a good time, watch a favorite show, whatever it takes to enjoy life to its fullest. I find the experience of threshold level MDAI can feel so subtle and non-drug-like, that if you're truly enjoying your hobbies and general life around you, those empathic feelings of peacefulness and tolerance in all things last pretty much the entire day.
All the while I eat healthy including whey protein, antioxidants, normal levels of multivitamins (not those silly 1000% RDA messes), and sleep fitfully.
Between these two extremes, I've never felt more balanced and capable. Before taking this measure, I had been getting frustrated over the little things in life, and my programming project was therefore running into obstacle after obstacle. Uncertainty and despair at my personal limits had begun taking its toll. I was frequented by thoughts of self-doubt, a decline in motivation and general lack of focus.
After nearly 4 weeks now of this, I've worked my way around every tight spot I had coded myself into with the Physics chunk of the engine, and haven't heard a peep out of those old, obnoxious negative thought-loops we all sometimes fall into.
The only trouble I've had from this regimen is that I end up sleeping 10 hours a day, as by the end of each day from either half of the week I'm completely... completely exhausted. But in a satisfied, self-assured sort of way. And every morning I wake up full of energy, eager and grateful to just be alive.
The time I spend away from MDAI I do not desire taking it in the least.
I think I'll try a month without any MDAI at all now, to see what comes of it. As has been suggested before, a low-low dose of L-Deprenyl (2.5 mg once or twice a week) seems to keep away post-entactogen depression, as I've never experienced any unpleasant after effects.
Then again, I'm usually too busy with work to care by that swing of the pendulum, so perhaps that has more to do with it than anything.
If there is any substance I would like to see studied and recognized as a Nootropic or obtain legitimate antidepressant prescribability status, it would have to be MDAI.
Last edited by LunarSylph; 13-11-2009 at 00:32.
any thoughts on music enhancment with mdai? i don't really read about that in the reports...
for me it was not very pronounced, less enhancement than i would get from weed or JWH-073 (which enhance music quite a bit for me!)
Well Shulgin patented Methylone as anti-depressant...
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
Does anyone know how would MDAI react to Marquis/Mecke/Mandelin reagents ?
I just received a batch of MDAI and tested a small portion of it. The Marquis test turned immediately to a dark red, then progressively to a very dark brown (almost black). Also, it was fizzing for almost 30 seconds.
Well, I don't know of any first hand reports of doing it, but I guess theoretically that's what should happen. Erowid has a list of all the colors changes here if you haven't looked at it yet. Dark red/very dark brown seems like it generally indicates an MDxx, and for IAP it says the Marquis should turn red and slowly intensify. But, if you've already looked that up, sorry I don't have anything useful to offer.
I will say that if your batch is like mine, it is a very light brown powder with a very slight root-beer like scent when in solution. Strange, I know, but trust me, it doesn't taste anything like root beer!
But besides that, it seems like all the MDAI created has been good quality, despite people getting from multiple sources (most likely, not 100% sure on this). Since they probably made it to get around analog laws, I'm pretty sure you got real MDAI. Not the smartest HR, I know. But start off with really small amounts first. There was recently a mix-up with 2C-B-Fly and Bromo-Dragonfly that caused some deaths and hospitalizations.
I know I never tested small doses in the past, and even a couple months ago when I received the MDAI, I went and did 100mg total for the first time I tried it. But after what happened with the 2C-B-Fly/Bromo-Dragonfly incidence, I'm starting low from now on. Read that thread if you haven't yet. It'll hopefully save some lives by reminding people to start with extremely small doses, and work your way up.
Last edited by Sturnam; 14-11-2009 at 05:41.
On a different note, for those that have tried it, what did you think of the sexual effects?
Personally, most drugs make sex, or even any kind of sexual touch, the least appealing thing in the world. Psychedelics and stimulants definitely top the list for these things. The only drugs that I do that I'm able to even have those kinds of thoughts on are opioids and alcohol (haven't had sex on alcohol in years though). And even when I can get it up, they do somewhat dull the pleasure, which the euphoria of the drug usually makes up for. I should also mention that I have some insecurities about sex. I'm pretty quick to finish, and then get frustrated and angry at myself for not lasting longer so the girl can have a fun time, and also because I generally enjoy the act of sex much more than the orgasm. Orgasms for me are usually somewhat bland anyways, which also affects my desire to have sex or masturbate. Lately, it's gotten to the point where after I orgasm I wonder why I just wasted my time doing that, although I should mention that could be partially due to the Pristiq and kratom I've been taking daily.
Anyway, connecting this to MDAI. When I've taken MDAI it makes me very, very sensitive and my touch sensations are amplified, and everything feels amazing, but not in the same way as MDMA. With MDAI, the sensations feel more "real" I guess, which I think is due to MDAI only slightly altering my though processes. Also, surprisingly, I'm easily able to get hard on MDAI. It doesn't affect my stamina at all either, and I have no trouble orgasming. However, this is the first drug to ever really amplify the pleasure from sexual things. I was writhing in bed touching myself, and probably would have been moaning if not for roommates. Personally, I think that something sexual, no matter what, is a absolute necessity on this drug. As good as it was touching myself, I can only begin to image how great it would be to have someone else touch me, and to run my hands over them as well. I don't think it would be great for fast, rough, or casual sex though. It seems like it's much better suited to a slow, intimate time together. I really can't get over how amazing both the feelings and orgasms are. I will definitely be trying this with a partner at the first possible opportunity. Lastly, I mentioned a few posts up that while on MDAI I was able to ejaculate without orgasming, and another poster was able to do this as well. I definitely plan on exploring this, and other possible sexual abilities the next time I take MDAI.
Overall, I think MDAI is my new favorite drug. I get a pretty strong euphoria (~100mg oral), it doesn't leave me wired and unable to sleep, it's non-neurotoxic, it's legal(ish), it only causes a mild change of mental status, and most importantly, because sexual activities feel amazing and it produces a wonderful orgasm.
Can you guys tell that I absolutely love the sexual aspect of it?
lol. I think for me, MDAI causes the same kind of sexual obsession that MDPV gives everyone else!
Anyways, I'm surprised no one has really mentioned this yet. Has anyone else experienced this?
Last edited by Sturnam; 14-11-2009 at 06:29. Reason: read over, profreed, rinse, repeat
- Join Date
- Nov 2009
Has anyone tried mixing this with a psychedelic? Some 2C-X perhaps? Can anyone think of problems with that combination?
Interesting stuff, has a feeling of significant potential, but also on it's own, it's not that amazing.
It will sprinkle a little magic fairy dust on top of you, but not enough to get you all the way to Never-Never Land.
Just the right amount for casual flying, IMO.
I like disappearing from reality on Ayahuasca or such every once in a while like any other good Psychonaut, but don't enjoy the "traditional casuals" like pot/alcohol in the least.
People like this tend to seek out Nootropics, Herbals (like Rhodiola Rosea, Chocolate extract, Coffee too) and/or Antidepressants for their own slice of "casual use" substance.
I imagine there's a niche of people like me who are interested in the idea of something they can take 2 or 3 times a week for leisure that isn't a THC/JWH compound or a beer.
candyflipping, so you should expect it to be hard to beat. It certainly makes MDAI a little less relaxing and a little more like a traditional entheo/empathic mix. At the very least it can add a little magic to a mediocre trip, or take a little of the edge off of a bad trip. But I wouldn't recommend it for improving mildly bad trips unless you're already familiar with the combo's headspace.
Taking a fair toke of DMT while on MDAI completely alters the headspace (for me) an hour at least.
And of course, L-Dep with MDAI both amplifies the experience and is a known neuroprotectant for that type of mix.
On the other hand, I find that 2C-I/2C-E don't mix nearly as well with MDAI/Methylone as the tryptamine psychedelics do. Then again, I've never once had a positive experience on a 2C-X compound, so different strokes for different folks... There's just something about the 2C-X signature that feels too "pushy" for me to like it.
MDAI has literally zero push to it, and mixing to give it that push isn't on my list of good ideas. You're pretty much guaranteed to yawn at some point. Kind of like how it feels after taking too much 5-HTP, except instead of feeling fuzzy in the head you feel fairly blissful instead. Erotic too, but in the natural sense (i.e. only when you want it to be; something like an amplifier).
Like Sturnam's been saying, the sexual aspect can be very, very pronounced once you've given all your attention to something erotic
But this isn't unheard of with antidepressants. L-Dep on its own is very sexual too, and already has a legitimate place in the antidepressant market.
Anyone want to think up a name for mixing LSD with one of the RC empathogens?
Last edited by LunarSylph; 14-11-2009 at 13:44.
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
So MDAI does not inhibit orgasm?
I am actually on this right now. I took a total of 90mg of the freebase over the space of 2hrs. I have no desire to take a higher dose, and am not sure why people are taking 100s of mgs of it.
If this proves to be crash-free, it will become one of my favourite drugs ever. On the surface it is very subtle and mild and in fact very functional (I just finished writing an essay for school). It is only when one lies down and closes one's eyes that the true magic comes out... I can only compare it to an opiate without any "narcotic" effects.
Truly entactogenic, and incredible depth in "mind-movies" when one relaxes.
Here's to hoping it doesn't cause a crash for me...
I need to note for those who aren't aware: I am currently on a constant cocktail of Gabapentin and Nicotine (patch) which keeps my mood balanced. Since this combo is very synergistic and probably has an indirect dopaminergic effect downstream, it likely interacted positively with the MDAI.
Btw I just dissolved 55mg of it in vinegar (it seemed to dissolve very well) and took it rectally. Let's see how this goes...
EDIT: And seems like I might be doing some sexual exploration in a bit. Will report back...
Last edited by Jamshyd; 15-11-2009 at 08:41.
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
I've tried the stuff yesterday. I did take about 125mg in the space of two hours. First tested for bad effects with 10mg, then took 80mg 1h later. The last 35mg were taken after come up.
Only bad side effect I had is a slight nausea about 3 - 4 hours after I took it, but this may have been caused by the vinegar it was dissolved in ... Pupil dilatation was there too.
The effects were mostly a clear headed and calm feeling - interaction with other people was enhanced. For me it was similar to a small benzo dose - it seems to take away my anxiety in communication. I was feeling I could talk just about anything.
Tactile sensations were highly enhanced and sex was awesome - without the vasoconstriction properties of MDMA.
Music sounded great too.
Overall, I was quite clear headed, had no drowsiness and was entirely functional. I didn't find the substance particularly sedating.
IMHO this substance seems much better suited for a social setting than alcohol. I wouldn't compare it to MDMA though.
^ Did you feel any crash afterwards/today?
I am loving this stuff. Definitely the best MDx I've tried.
And yes I can attest to the slight nausea at 4h-ish. It can easily be avoided by lying down. Pupil Dilation very apparent. Also, lots of sweating and a bit of dry mouth. Nothing serious though.