I have 2 questions regarding Oxymorphone (Opana)
1. Rectal BA anyone?
Oral BA: 10% Intranasal: 43% Rectal: ???
2. I've heard that the oral BA of Oxymorphone can be increased 50-60%(?) with alcohol, could you prep Oxymorphone (IR) in a alcohol solution to increase the BA and then just ingest it? let me know your thoughts
this would be similar to 6/7's method for increasing suboxone BA but instead of sublingual administration, oral administration.
Thread: OxyMorphone BA Questions
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Last edited by Opiate 420; 05-09-2009 at 00:29.
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
I always heard opana is best served with a fatty meal.
Yea I saw that, Im pretty amazed that theirs no info on the Rectal BA, especially when Numorphan was made in suppositories, It's kind of frustrating how very few people on BL know info on Oxymorphone, I guess it's just one of those drugs...
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
- I wished with all my heart that we could just...leave this world behind. Rise like two angels in the night and magically...disappear.
Nobody knows the intranasal BA for Opana. We know it for Oxymorphone, but not Opana. In fact posting intranasal BA numbers for any crushed Rx pill is pointless and useless. Just keep in mind that the actual BA of Opana will be nowhere near as high as the BA for Oxymorphone Hcl.
^ I don't get what your saying, Opana = Oxymorphone Hcl
and Capt. H, Im not prescribed these my friend is and we were discussing this so i figured I'd post a thread.
So I've come to realize the Rectal BA cannot be found.
on to the 2nd question, what do you guys think about the alcohol solution thing?
I found this
The effect of co-ingestion of alcohol with Opana has not been evaluated. However, an in vivo study was performed to evaluate the effect of alcohol (40%, 20%, 4% and 0% ) on the bioavailability of a single dose of 40 mg of Opana ER (an extended-release formulation of oxymorphone) in healthy, fasted volunteers. Following concomitant administration of 240 mL of 40% ethanol the Cmax increased on average by 70% and up to 270% in individual subjects. Following the concomitant administration of 240 mL of 20% ethanol, the Cmax increased on average by 31% and up to 260% in individual subjects. In some individuals there was also a decrease in oxymorphone peak plasma concentrations. No effect on the release of oxymorphone from Opana ER was noted in an in vitro alcohol interaction study. The mechanism of the in vivo interaction is unknown. Therefore, co-administration of oxymorphone and ethanol must be avoided.
The low bioavailability of oxymorphone after oral administration requires Opana extended-release to contain up to 40 mg of oxymorphone per tablet -- almost as much as an entire case of Numorphan ampoules; attempts to circumvent the extended-release mechanism by injecting or snorting the tablets are therefore particularly dangerous. However, chewing the tablets and/or taking with alcohol for the 70 per cent bioavailability boost from the latter appear to be the only means successful Opana ER misuse aside from insufflation -- the TIMERx system appears to be making the extended release tablets useless for preparing for injection. Indeed, it appears that the tablet was designed first and oxymorphone chosen as the active ingredient because all the others available in the USA for oral use (fentanils are rapidly destroyed almost completely in the digestive tract, leaving only injection, transdermal, transmucosal, sublingual, and buccal routes as options) with the possible exception of levorphanol or doses of hydromorphone in the 50 to 200 mg range as useful for making a TIMERx-based analgesic preparation.
Last edited by Opiate 420; 05-09-2009 at 00:28.
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
Not sure what this means. Are you typing while high...?
Well I'll explain. And I'll use hydromorphone as an example, since I don't have any oxymorphone available to weigh. So... a Purdue/Abbott 8mg Dilaudid weighs 150mg. That's a tiny speck of active ingredient and a whopping ~140mg of magnesium stearate.
What does that mean? Well first off, it means that when you crush/snort it, 95% of the matter inside your nose is inert. Only 5% of the active drug is touching your mucus membranes and being absorbed into your nasal capillaries. This is powder we're talking about, not a homogeneous solution that can equalize its concentrations. I would imagine that SOME of the drug is absorbed through osmosis, but most will just sit in your nose, resting on a magnesium stearate barrier. And then your nose will slowly dry out throughout the course of the evening, and the drug will become encapsulated in drying mucus and turn to boogers, which you will later pick and flick. Or perhaps later on you'll simply blow your nose and expel the unabsorbed drug into a tissue.
Simply put, the intranasal BA of ANY crushed pill is nowhere NEAR the BA of the pure substance. And these numbers that are posted everywhere are just blanket statistics. How can it be accurate when it doesn't even take quantity into consideration? Surely, common sense tells you that the less you snort, the more will be absorbed intranasally. I don't know about you, but me personally, my nose can't even hold 100mg of powder. After that, it just goes into my lungs. This is easily verified - just exhale quickly after snorting a line and you'll emit a plume of dusty "smoke." That should be indication enough that the drug is all in your lungs, not your sinuses.
And that doesn't even consider how much slides down from your sinuses into your stomach. Some studies show that 50% of an insufflated drug ends up in your stomach. So now we're essentially talking about oral BA, not intranasal BA.
So yes, these are all the reasons why I know for a fact that the intranasal BA percentages that get plastered all over this forum are useless. How could you blindly believe such a blanket statement? Consider someone snorting 4mg of Dilaudid. That's 75mg. Surely, most, if not all of that would be captured by the sinuses and would be absorbed intranasally. Now consider someone snorting 16mg of Dilaudid. That's 300mg of powder, and I can tell you from experience that huge quantities of it go straight into the lungs, and also down the throat into the stomach. What good are intranasal BA numbers now? It's just a combo of lung and GI absorption.
Please people, use common sense. Maybe the intranasal BA percentages would be accurate if you snorted 20mg, waiting 15mins for full absorption, then irrigated your sinuses, snorted another 20mg, etc. etc. But nobody does that. Who actually irrigates out the inert matter before doing another bump? Like I keep saying, don't believe intranasal BA percentages. Or ANY BA percentage for that matter. Consider rectal BA - how can you be sure that your rectum is fully evacuated? Any fecal matter at all is going to absorb the drug and diminish absorption. And what about oral BA; well certainly that depends on your stomach pH, and the contents of your stomach (e.g. empty stomach? stomach full of fatty foods?), and of course, your specific hepatic function (i.e. CYP450 efficiency, 2Dx/3Ax substrate prolificity).
So no, I don't believe in posting bioavailability figures. I think everyone should try the different ROAs for themselves to determine which works best. Unless you're injecting it, there are quite simply too many variables present which influence absorption, for us to tell you what ROA will work best. After all, the BA statistics that BL'ers so desperately cling to are the same figures that list the oral BA of oxycodone as being higher than the intranasal BA. Yet we all know that snorting OC is more effective than eating it, by a LONG shot. Well, it is for me at least, and that's one of my main points: YMMV.
Sorry for the epic long-winded rant, I'm sorta putting off my work right now
great post Fail Fighter. you raised a lot of points i never considered before. I always was interested in BA of different substances and never really considered they could be off because of soo many factors, especially the fact that pills might only be 5% active..
Well then here's one more tidbit that might be useful - I still see people who snort an entire dose of powder into ONE nostril. I'm like "Ahhh, why wouldn't you divide the dose equally into two lines, one for each nostril?!" Snorting into both nostrils will double the surface area for the drug to adhere and absorb into. That's DOUBLE the chance of nasal absorption. I always thought it was common sense to snort into both nostrils, but apparently I was wrong because I still encounter people who frequently use just one nostril.
And another thing to consider is the inactive ingredients in the pill you're snorting. I always check that first. For example, Dilaudid is an extremely pure pill, containing only hydromorphone, lactose, and magnesium stearate. That's it. There is nothing inside it that is damaging to the nose or lungs. However, some pills might contain something like talc, which causes lung disease if snorted frequently. Here is the inactive ingredient list for Opana:
Originally Posted by www.drugs.com
So that's why I stick to Dilaudid for my insufflation ventures. Oxycontin is another good pill to snort, because it has the highest concentration of active ingredients by mass out of any opiate I've ever weighed. An OC 80, for example, weighs about 260mg. With 80mg of active, that means the pill is 31% active. So when you snort it, about 1/3 of the material contacting your membranes is active. That's pretty darn good, but on the other hand, it does contain talc (causes lung disease!) and it also contains sodium hydroxide (burns/irritates mucus membranes).
Case in point, just be sure to research exactly what it is that you're snorting. I weigh every type of scheduled pill I ever get my hands on, including all brand-name and generic variations, and record the data for eventual posting on Bluelight. Basically, I've found that every pill typically has between 5 and 30mg of active, and they typically weigh between 240 and 300mg. I'd say on average, 90% of any given scheduled pill is the "other" ingredients. People have full faith in pharmaceuticals and have that "Don't worry, it's FDA regulated so I know it's safe" mentality. But it's only safe if you use it as intended! There are surely a lot of chemicals that are safe for your GI system that will wreak havoc on your respiratory system.
Wow what is your point buddy? Obviously their are fillers and binders in the pill, like I expect it to be pure Oxymorphone Hcl salt or something? of course not, everybody knows that pills contain fillers..
and OF COURSE the BA numbers aren't fucking set in stone, who said they were?! They are there to give you a rough idea of the amount of drug that will be absorbed through a certain route of administration. Sry but telling me that BA's are subject to change is pretty much a given, and YES there are many factors that can effect the BA like stomach contents, snorting tehnique, etc.
You said the BA percentages are useless. Anyone with common sense would know that the BA percentages are vital for a site that is focused on Harm Reduction, you do know thats what this site is all about right?
Why would BA percentages be important in Harm Reduction? Ill give you an example. lets use Oxymorphone as an example.
So a kid gets 40mg of Opana, he is told that it is twice the strength as Oxycontin mg for mg, he needs an 80mg (OC) to get real fucked up usually. So he figures he'll just do the whole 40mg to get fucked up. He crushes it up real good and snorts it, cuz thats what he does to his OC, right? then he OD's. Why? because the Opana is twice as strong as OC when the BA is 10% (Orally) but when he crushed it and snorted it the BA raised to 35 - 45%, making it really more like 3 - 4 times the strength of OC, resulting in an Overdose. That is why BA percentages are important, yea they might not be completely accurate but they give you a rough estimate so you know how much of said drug you should take. BA's are the opposite of useless, they are very useful actually, especially when it comes to Harm Reduction.
BA's have a number of other good uses as well, for instance, if you are planning on using a new drug, you can check the BA of all ROA's for that drug and decide which is the most effective, so you get the most out of your drug.
There is many reasons we use BA percentages on a site like this, I just named a couple, so I'm just showing you that even though they can varry they are still useful in HR
Last edited by Opiate 420; 05-09-2009 at 20:43.
^uh nobody said BA's are not important, and i'm pretty sure failfighter knows the importance BA's can have. He was just pointing out that BA's are not completely correct because of all the bullshit fillers that are in the pills. you can't take BA's as 100% fact is all, but they are important.
yea, he said they were useless, so I was pointing out to him the many uses that BA's can have, and yes I know BA's are not 100% correct because of a handful of factors, fail fighter made it seem like BA percentages had no purpose which is just wrong. Everyone knows that BA's can fluctuate, they are good at giving you a rough number though.
now if we could get back to my original question, enough of this nonsense
Edit: just got the answer to my question, mods close this if you want to
Last edited by Opiate 420; 05-09-2009 at 20:43.
If you let the mucus membranes dry up then like you said,the substance will dry up and go to waste.By keeping them moist it will get absorbed the way you wanted.
1 10 mg IR should = 2 lines or depending on your tolerance 2 10 mg (as stated 1 for each nostril) crushed VERY fine does the trick.Sinus are irrigated before and after the procedure being careful NOT to get a drip because then you might as well have taken it orally.
The idea is to keep it up there until it "Melts" away (Gets absorbed) and the water helps with this.
Intranasal gives a MUCH higher %,effect,feeling,whatever you want to call it IMHO as long as it's done correct
On another note this method will SKYROCKET your tolerance so just be sure you have a good stock on hand.
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
I'm posting this from experience. I just scored my first 40mg Opana today. No one I was with ever fucked with it so at first we tried to bang it like good little junkies but that didn't work out too well. I heated it and it turned into what looked like melted plastic so then determined to shoot it as it was already in my spoon, I added more water, stirred, heated, repeat until I finally drew up 1cc full of probably mostly water and gelly bullshit. I put probably 15mg in the spoon and it felt like 4mg hydromorphone IV and left a bubble (which thank god went away really quickly) and a blackish red dot that's still on my arm. I then ate the shit in the spoon right after I banged it but it didn't do too much.
So, a couple hours later I'm starting to feel sick again and there's no way I'm gonna put that gelly bullshit through my veins again so I snort maybe another 15mg. That 15mg gets me fucking FADED. Easily the strongest opiate I've ever done and I've done heroin, oxycontin, hydromorphone, and morphine to name the strongest. The 25-30mg I ended up doing (well maybe just the 15mg because I kinda wasted the shit I tried to IV) felt like well over 80mg of oxycontin.
Dead,it's NOT advisable to bang the ER's however the IR's can be banged,ate,held sublingualy (used to be my method,don't ask why),snorted,and for those that don't mind wasting a good amount of it smoked (chasing it,not in a bong or blunt like some say).
ER's are usually ate or snorted even though they MAY gel up.
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
I just found out how to bang the Opana 40mg ER. I just did it actually. All you gotta do is crisp it. Put your dose in the spoon without water, add heat until it turns brown, then add water, add a cotton, draw up, and shoot. Worked fucking great. Great rush... better than hydromorphone I'd say. The other methods I read about involved rubbing alcohol and all this bullshit but this method works great. I should know, I just did it
^That doesn't sound too safe
Glad "Crisping" worked our for ya' Dead.Crisping has been done with Avinzas with good results as well,the only thing diffrent was a Micron Wheel filter was used insted of cotton (They help take out extra crap you don't want).
If you can,give these a shot (No pun intended),they work great.
^ You should not smoke it anyway. Wasted or not its horrible for you. Way worse then IVing a pill the proper way. Again I am not glad it worked for you as "crisping" as you put it is horrible for your body never heat any pill solution.
Yea my main point to that post was:
your going to murder your lungs because 99% of the pill that your smoking is binder/fillers
"crisping"? what are you thinking?