Big n Dandy 4-FA thread

[phatass]

so heres what i've gathered so far about 4-FA aka 4-Fluoroamphetamine (mostly from wikipedia.

"4-Fluoroamphetamine (4-FA; PAL-303; "Flux"), also known as para-fluoroamphetamine (PFA) is a psychoactive drug and research chemical of the phenethylamine and amphetamine chemical classes. It produces stimulant and possibly entactogenic effects. 4-FA is a relatively rare drug on the illicit market, although it is sometimes sold as a designer drug along with related analogues such as 2-fluoroamphetamine and 4-fluoromethamphetamine, among others."

"Effects

The subjective effects of 4-FA include euphoria, increased energy, mood elevation, excessive talking, bruxism (jaw clenching), insomnia and suppressed appetite.

4-Fluoroamphetamine is a potent stimulant and serotonin releaser as with other para-substituted amphetamine derivatives, but is both significantly less potent as a serotonin releaser and much less neurotoxic than related compounds such as parachloroamphetamine and paraiodoamphetamine, with both serotonin-releasing potency and neurotoxicity increasing down the halogen series 4-FA << PCA < PBA < PIA,[3][4] while conversely the dopamine reuptake inhibition produced by 4-FA is stronger than that of either PCA or PIA.[5] 4-FA also produces less hyperthermia than similar compounds such as PMA, 4-MTA and 4-methylamphetamine, but both hyperthermia and neurotoxicity are still likely to be complications of overdose or excessive use of 4-FA."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-Fluoroamphetamine

Have any of you tried this substance.. some first hand reports would be interesting!

Here are some erowid TR's http://www.erowid.org/experiences/su...hetamine.shtml

[shoolameet]

I actually just started doing some research on this and have been debating on whether or not I want to invest in it.
So far I have only found 1 vendor and the price isn't terrible, but it isn't inexpensive at all.

I would love to hear more trip reports and more info on the physiological and psychological effects. It seems like it could be comparable to MDMA, but I would prefer an actual report over my assumption before I go buying this stuff.
Also, any info on drug interactions would be great (including opiates (bupe too,) benzos, ssri's, snri's, and muscle relaxers.)

p.s. I am not really sure if this post even makes sense right now - i am pretty benzoed up and this took me like 15-20 minutes to type out, so i will be sure to reread this tomorrow and edit if necessary.

[Ne0]

I actually just started doing some research on this and have been debating on whether or not I want to invest in it.
So far I have only found 1 vendor and the price isn't terrible, but it isn't inexpensive at all.

I would love to hear more trip reports and more info on the physiological and psychological effects. It seems like it could be comparable to MDMA, but I would prefer an actual report over my assumption before I go buying this stuff.
Also, any info on drug interactions would be great (including opiates (bupe too,) benzos, ssri's, snri's, and muscle relaxers.)

p.s. I am not really sure if this post even makes sense right now - i am pretty benzoed up and this took me like 15-20 minutes to type out, so i will be sure to reread this tomorrow and edit if necessary.

Yes it feels kind of MDMA. Makes you emphatic, really social and overall really good feeling. Even when taken by oral, you get nice tingling feeling up to you're head while it comes up. It has also amphetamine like speediness and makes your head clear. Works about 4h, you can boost it by one or two times but after that it won't work anymore.

[phatass]

can you sniff it,?

[BehindMind]

I have sampled it two times at 100mg (oral).

Nice euphoria. Good for a chill afternoon with friends and good music. I haven't felt any negative effects on onset, comedown or afterwards. I usually take two 5-htp (100mg) before I go to sleep.

I think I will try 150mg (oral) next time.

[Ne0]

can you sniff it,?

It burns like hell I've heard. I've only eaten and plugged it. Plugging gives huge rush.

[Link_S]

Sounds to be really good, always meant to try it but never quite got round to it. From all reports i've heard do not snort, it burns on a par with the 2cx's apparently

[phatass]

sweet.... considering i'll be snorting my 2C-E (prefer the come-up) i'll have to see if it lives up to the 2C-Ellish standards... héhé, nah i'll see.... i also sniffed 5-meo-DMT which was pretty nasty

[Link_S]

If you havnt sniffed a 2c-x before id advise against it, never quite felt pain like snorting 2ci, though it does only last 15 minutes

[phatass]

^^ trust... i've sniffed a LOT of 2C-E, 2C-I and 2C-B.... no pain no gain

[naginnudej]

Insufflation is not recommended. It tastes horrible as well. Rectal admin should suffice for those looking for a quick onset.

I must say that this substance is very promising. I've been using it frequently as a study aid for the past few weeks and have no serious complaints. You get your run-of-the-mill amphetamine sweats, tight muscles, irregular bowel movements, lack of appetite, etc... but other than that 4-fa appears to be a winner. Mind you, the duration is extremely long, although I don't find that to be much of a bother.

My TR: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=493388

Addiction potential is definitely there for those prone to 'fiend' for that initial rush.

There are also the obvious risks involved when playing with RCs:

Chemically, well ya on some rather-rudimentary levels it's pretty close [to mdma]. But 4-fluoroamphetamine's structurally going to be closer to 4-fluoromethcathinone (4-FMC), which IS close to 4-methylmethcathinone (4-MMC/meph). So by transitivity, the stuff's going to be pretty darn close to mephedrone, for better or WORSE.

Meaning the risk of neurotoxicity (mainly), as well as addiction, is also going to be higher than the more classical amphetamine phenethylamines (like MDMA), given (among other things) that it's more closely related to mephedrone than to MDMA.

my implication would be that that misc. heart issues are a serious threat for all of the substituted cathinones (either on the RC market, yet to make it there, or not suitable for it). So ya, 4-MMC would act in a similar fashion to 4-FA on a global substituted cathinone level (again, whatever that may be, with the lack of long-term research), and given that it's similar the similarity of these two (or three) chemicals with respect to their optional substitutions/replacements, I'd say that they'd have similar physical effect means when compared to all substituted cathinones. Meaning any unknown dangers for 4-FA would be quite similar to unknown dangers for 4-MMC. I say "unknown," again, as these are modern-age RCs. If you get what I'm sayin'...

4-fluoro-amphetamine has been found to carry drastically less risk of neurotoxicity than mdma, as is largely the case with methylone too (both studies are Nichols et al., iirc). Also, I don't see why we should consider mephedrone more neurotoxic than MDMA on an a priori basis. As of yet, we don't really know what its receptor affinities, etc. are like, even.

I don't think that there's been rigorous study on the danger of 4-fa's metabolites (although they've been identified), but I believe that you have little to worry about--4fa won't metabolize to an ephedrine-like compound (in this case, we'd be worried about a cathine derivative, I believe).

5ht2b agonism is a more open question.

[phatass]

well the first 100mg gave me a slight mood lift, feeling slightly stimulated, in a very good way... i later bombed another 100mg's and waited 30 minutes, sniffed a 20+mg line of 2C-E and now feel very stimulated, euphoric, jaw clenching slightly... slight visuals from the 2C.... but definately feeling more stimulated than 2C alone, i'm sweating quite a bit, but feeling on top of the world.... sort of like a cleaner version of mephedrone

i've prepared 200mg parachutes for me n a couple of mates to sample tonight at a Drum n bass party... should be interesting

[shoolameet]

cleaner version of meph?! sounds amazing, and like someone else said, too good to be true!

Anyone have any info on my previous question about drug interactions?

[Xtc <3]

Going to order a gram or 2 of this in the coming weeks, will report back when I have sampled it. Sounds promising.

[ebola?]

The abbreviation "4fmp" will get rather confusing rather quickly, as people begin to sample "4-fluoro-methyl-amphetamine" more often.

ebola

[Psychonauticunt]

cleaner version of meph?! sounds amazing, and like someone else said, too good to be true!

Anyone have any info on my previous question about drug interactions?

Cleaner, less intense, slightly less empathogenic, longer-lasting meph. Think meph meets ordinary amphetamine. More euphoric than regular amp, less so than meph, more empathogenic than amp, less so than meph, longer-lasting than meph, and from my experiences, very mellow comedown - actually more like a plateau reminiscent of acid, as opposed to a "crash" like many empathogenics.

Don't expect it to blow your socks off like meph does when it start rushing; it's basically speed that feels a bit better in the beginning half and feels decidedly less shit towards the end.

[jblz]

In addition to the above - I don't know if it was because of the mix of methylone but there was definately light visuals both times I've done this (textures, patterns).

[enduin]

I've been reading from many about the supposed low neurotoxicity of 4-fa if compared to other halo, but never seen any source for it. Does anyone have link or paper related to 5-fa's toxicity or pharmacodynamics?
And another thing I don't get: anyone who tried it seems happy with it, then why it's so rare and unknown? Theories?

[Vader]

The abbreviation "4fmp" will get rather confusing rather quickly, as people begin to sample "4-fluoro-methyl-amphetamine" more often.

It's already rather confusing; I thought that this thread was about that compound when I read the title.

[simstimstar]

The abbreviation "4fmp" will get rather confusing rather quickly, as people begin to sample "4-fluoro-methyl-amphetamine" more often.

ebola

Yes, and I believe 4-FA (4-fluoro-amphetamine) to be a more useful name for this compound, longterm. I believe 4-fmp was created as a name only to avoid selling an RC with the name amphetamine in it. I would think that 4-fluoro-methyl-amphetamine (4-fma) would be better and probably more 4-mmc like.

For me 4-fa is a fairly effective stimulant with empathic and ectactogenic overtones. I have had it on about a dozen occasions (in doses ranging from 75mg nasally to 100-300mg orally) and I found it far less euphoric than mephedrone, methylone, or mdma. Even when combined with butylone it fell far, far short of mephedrone. Not to say that it was bad, just expect it to be more amphetamine-like than most other empathogens. It's great for keeping you going on those late nights out, but without blowing your mind like mdma and 4-mmc can.

Is it worth it? depends on how cheap you can get it. I can get mephedrone much cheaper and I prefer the high of mephedrone so I would usually opt for that. Now as far as the safety index, I would say that 4-fa (4-fmp) feels like it is probably much safer than mephedrone, due to the fact that you aren't anywhere near as fucked up, but then I have never taken 850mg of 4-fmp at once (I have taken that much meph at one oral dose! rough night). Even at 75mg nasally it wouldn't even touch the euphoria of 75mg mephedrone nasally. 4-fa definitely won't have you redosing compulsively like meph since 4-fa lasts 12hrs+ and by the end you will be so worn out redosing will sound like a bad idea.

Is it good? meh, it's ok. Would I do it again, yes! But it's not very high on the list of things to go out and buy. When I used to be addicted to amphetamines I probably would have been more enamored with it, but that's about how it is. Almost like slightly trippy adderrall.

Cheers,
SimStim

PS- the burn is not as bad as 2c-x compounds. It is VERY bad, but it subsides very quickly and does not linger or cause me to feel like I am going to drown in mucous and then vomit like 2c-e and 2-ct-2 do (but not for some reason 2c-i).

[simstimstar]

The abbreviation "4fmp" will get rather confusing rather quickly, as people begin to sample "4-fluoro-methyl-amphetamine" more often.

ebola

Yes, and I believe 4-FA (4-fluoro-amphetamine) to be a more useful name for this compound, longterm. I believe 4-fmp was created as a name only to avoid selling an RC with the name amphetamine in it.

For me it is a fairly effective stimulant with empathic and ectactogenic overtones. I have had it on about a dozen occasions (in doses ranging from 75mg nasally to 100-300mg orally) and I found it far less euphoric than mephedrone, methylone, or mdma. Even when combined with butylone it fell far, far short of mephedrone. Not to say that it was bad, just expect it to be more amphetamine-like than most other empathogens. It's great for keeping you going on those late nights out, but without blowing your mind like mdma and 4-mmc can.

Is it worth it? depends on how cheap you can get it. I can get mephedrone much cheaper and I prefer the high of mephedrone so I would usually opt for that. Now as far as the safety index, I would say that 4-fa (4-fmp) feels like it is probably much safer than mephedrone, due to the fact that you aren't anywhere near as fucked up, but then I have never taken 850mg of 4-fmp at once (I have taken that much meph at once! rough night). Even at 75mg nasally it wouldn't even touch the euphoria of 75mg mephedrone nasally. 4-fa definitely won't have you redosing compulsively like meph since 4-fa lasts 12hrs+ and by the end you will be so worn out redosing will sound like a bad idea.

Is it good? meh, it's ok. Would I do it again, yes! But it's not very high on the list of things to go out and buy. When I used to be addicted to amphetamines I probably would have been more enamored with it, but that's about how it is. Almost like slightly trippy adderrall.

Cheers,
SimStim

[Psychonauticunt]

Cleaner, less intense, slightly less empathogenic, longer-lasting meph. Think meph meets ordinary amphetamine. More euphoric than regular amp, less so than meph, more empathogenic than amp, less so than meph, longer-lasting than meph, and from my experiences, very mellow comedown - actually more like a plateau reminiscent of acid, as opposed to a "crash" like many empathogenics.

Don't expect it to blow your socks off like meph does when it start rushing; it's basically speed that feels a bit better in the beginning half and feels decidedly less shit towards the end.

All in all: probably the best pure stimulant (not empathogen) I have tried. If you like speed, switch to this stuff. Less bad side effects, better effects.

[trancerage]

I've got a 1 gram of 4-fa and m-1 and planing to mix them tomorrow...

Question, 150 mg methylone + 100 mg 4-fa would be ok???

Im a male of about 75 kilos, im planning in take it with a mate, whos about 50 kilos TOPS... what do you guys think the right dosis would be???

[yeppuni]

First, I completely agree with an opinion that the nomenclature of this substance is 4-FA better than 4-FMP. 4-FMP is aggression of 4-Fluoro-(alpha)-Methyl-Phenthylamine, however it's not systematic chemical nomenclature (it's 1-(4-Fluorophenyl)propan-2-amine), moreover it's difficult to understand what it means unless having high-level knowledge of chemistry and psychopharmacology, and this name sometimes potentially confusing with other substances like 4-FMA. 4-FA, in contrast, many researchers may easily guess that it's aggression of 4-Fluoro-Amphetamine, it's clear. I think 4-FMP is named by some vendors because of the name 4-FA has a risk to be mistaken illegal Amphetamines so to prevent these problems they used 4-FMP. It's scientific discussion so I will use 4-FA.
There's an article about differences in vivo pharmacokinetics between d-Amphetamine (d-AMP), d-Methamphetamine, 4-FA, and 4-FMA in Japan (This article is Japanese only so I'll introduce the summarise of this in English). These data are not human's but rats so this may not be adopted to human, so please consider as only scientific data, but it's so precious data.
According to this article the half life of d-AMP (1 mg / kg, and so forth) in rats is approx. 100 min., in contrast 4-FA is approx. 205 min., about 2-fold longer. Interestingly, comparing d-MAP with 4-FMA it's opposite, d-MAP is approx. 110 min., 4-FMA is approx. 60 min.
There are many differences between human and rat in metabolise pathway so it should not too simplify to interpret of course, but if these differences could be neglected, medical research shows that the half life of d-AMP (as prescription medicine Dexedrine in the US) is about 9 hours in children and 11 hours in adults, then 4-FA has potentially over 23-24 hours half-life so it could be ideal medicine for AD/HD because it's no need to take divided and not too long to cause insomnia when comply to the prescription issued by specialist.
And this article also hypothesised the reason why 4-FMA has shorter half life than d-MAP, it says demethylation of 4-FMA is rapidly processing than d-MAP. I cannot any skeptical point in this hypothesis in my knowledge, so please point out if exist something skeptical point in it.
It may support that many researcher said that 4-FA is better than 4-FMA, because many people think that Methamphetamine is stronger than Amphetamine and indeed that's right, but it's not the nature of substances but the fact is only MAP is far more lipophilic than AMP due to -CH3 so easily penetrate BBB then has higher activity than AMP. In fact AMP is slightly stronger than MAP in vitro.
It's shown that Fluorine increase lipophilicity then it's no wonder 4-FA has stronger biological activity than 4-FMA.
Subjectively 4-FA is not so worth to recreational use however it has potentially more effective because due to has less adrenargic property than d-AMP or rac-AMP (Adderall or Dexedrine), it must reduce side effects like agitation, cardiovascular side effects and so on, moreover, weak entactogenic effect might have good influence to those who have AD/HD with Autistic Spectrum for 10-20 mg low dose.
I hope that this substance will not be only treated as "Drugs of abuse" but approved as Rx medicine for AD/HD someday.

(4-FA is completely legal in my country unless to sell or give to others, however it may show pseudopositive reacion to simple drug screening test then it has some difficulties for therapeutic use instead of Adderall which is illegal with no exception, even if doctor's prescription possessing here)

[jblz]

Quick question - might have been answered before.

Both times I've tried 4-FA I've had a g, and a g of methylone between two people. Would it be worth buying 2g of 4-FA for redosing over the night or is this overkill - would it still give the same rushes?