Hello and an MDPV Question

[missing old pills]

Just a quick one is freebase mdpv as addictive as crack?

[Pseudovoyager]

Just a quick one is freebase mdpv as addictive as crack?

Some say moreso, some say less. It's subjective. I'd say it's at least *as* psychologically addictive. I've never smoked crack, so I wouldn't know...

[.dp]

Crack cocaine is not the bloody free base.

FREE BASE. WHAT IS THE PROBLEM OF UNDERSTANDING THE TERM FREE?

Well, a good guess but ..... I don't think that's the case. The "crack" form, if you want to call it that, occurs within minutes of the process. Yet it takes many days to develop the new characteristics, during which time the oil decays into something else. Also -- When I convert the freebase back into a salt after the end process, it still has the new "tan" characteristics. So it's not "crack".

No, it s taking days because you don t heat it for vaporizing.
anyway the outcome is NOT the freebase.

it s mdpv hydrogen carbonate + nacl ..
your "OIL" is the freebase of MDPV.

I think the process is partly bacterial. Acetobacter and Clostridium, for example, are well know for creating Acetic Acid from a variety of base compounds. And they are found everywhere - in the dirt, the air, on your hands. There are thousands of other examples where bacteria convert one chemical substance into another. Many of my failures at producing the "impurity" occurred in clean room environments. In fact, in every case where a clean room was used, there was no expected end result. So I truly believe a common bacteria, possibly psuedomonas or something similar, is fully or partially responsible for the end result.

thats a disgusting thought and idiotic.

But it's not "crack" mdpv. That's easy to make and has the identical characteristics of mdpv hydrochloride.

send that stuff into a priceless lab.

aye crack cocaine = freebase cocaine
freebasing when referring to crack is just something people call it when they're in denial about being a crackhead

Are you a crackhead?

crack cocaine = cocain hydrogencarbonate + left over nacl

Lol you're right, he did make crack-mdpv, which is also the same thing as freebase mdpv.

Crack cocaine is just cocaine that has been turned from the HCL salt into freebase form.

I've been keeping an eye on this thread as I long to try the tan MDPV for myself, like you I enjoy the pro-sexual effects of compounds. Unfortunatley given the procedure you described I don't think my non-existant chemistry skills are up to the job.

you even concede yourself to don t know anything about chemistry.
then don t trying to explain it to me.
stim users tolerance with wrong posts is always low

[stuffmonger]

Curiouser and curiouser... But it would fit the main theories about the tan stuff - story always goes that somebody fucked up a load and just sold it on. Then when people went crazy for it nobody could supply it cos nobody knew how they'd fucked it. I am now officially itching to get a lil peev and have a crack at crackerating it. Either that or I've got scabies or summat cos I'm certainly a-itching. Roll on the new year and the pennies it may bring

Well then.... If you want a further mystery, let me hand you one:

You are probably aware of the rumors floating around the net (some of them posted here on Bluelight), that if you simply dissolve mdpv in water and wait a while it will turn into the tan "perv powder" when you evaporate it. It didn't seem feasible to me, but, in order to leave no stone unturned, I tried every possible combination of heat, light, agitation and oxygen infusion to a fairly large sample of pv hydrochloride (the snow white) in a glass of water, and after 17 months and many hundreds of dissolves and evaporates here is what I have:



It is EXACTLY the same white shitty mdpv. The slight yellowing, I think, is simply dust that seeped in through hundreds of uncoverings and inspections.

BUT--------

By accident I got some of the unconverted (pure mdpv) pv acetate wet once (I only recently - in the past six months, started returning the end product to its salt form. I chose acetate instead of HCL because it's safer to do. I had created a test salt from the pure mdpv oil to use as a comparison to the tan (exactly the same characteristics as white pv)). As it dried I noticed it changing slowly from a pure white to a light tan color. When it completely dried I scaped a segment and turned it over. It was still near white underneath. So something in the air, while wet, changed it into something else:



The color in the photo is not the best, but you can clearly see a much lighter color on the scraping at the top that's been turned over.

I chopped it up, wet it again, dried it and continued for 6 iterations. This is the result:



It looks, and, oddly enough, smells just like the tan. Yet all I did was dissolve the pure mdpv acetate in water for a few iterations.

Now---- I haven't tasted this stuff. Over the past two years I have played with mdpv using ether, tuloene, xylene, baking soda, galacial acetate, vinegar, water, ethanol and dirt from my garden(the bacterial connection). I have precipitated, heated, frozen, incubated, dissolved, evaporated, combined and separated every possible combination of precipitate, solution and oil. In the process I have come up with substances that were less than enjoyable to ingest. I am my only test subject for these experiments. I temporarily blinded myself for three hours after drying and ingesting a brown goo that appeared after five days of incubating an odd gray precipitate after an ether/acetate experiment with pv. I once ended up with a dark brown substance that looked similar to the darker tan pv versions. It gave me an incapacitating headache that lasted 4 days. I had overheated the pv oil during precipitation and created something horrible. I got PV oil on my skin and didn't sleep for 72 hours, during which time hellish visual and auditory hallucinations had me locked in the bathroom where I hid in the bathtub for 30 hours. My first hit of the acetate salt that I created from the tan had me hallucinating again for a few days. I had not considered that the salt version of the tan freebase might have dosages measured in micrograms. I should have guessed from the huge residual slush left over from the Acetic Acid wash. But I didn't. I bumped 3 milligrams. 300 micrograms is a large dose.

What I'm saying is that my body is barely being held together, and what little cohesion is left is the result of vitamins and pure will power. So I just don't have the courage to go down the acetate road. The HCL road has used me up.

But fro anyone just starting out and feeling fresh -- the acetate is dirt simple to make: Throw the pv hcl in water with baking soda. Remove the oil as described (and shown) in the first post of this thread. Pour a liberal amount of glacial Acetic Acid over the oil. It will dissolve completely into a clear liquid. Pour it in a shallow dish and place in front of a fan. When dried, scrape up the powder -- you now have mdpv acetate, which, as shown above, DOES do something profoundly weird when dissolved in water and allowed to evaporate.

Have fun.

[Shambles]

You really are quite the lil experimenter

If only science lessons at school involved fun with sillystrong stims I'd have a couple more qualifications than I do. The 300ug version has definitely piqued my interest. The price of peevee can get ridiculously high online sometimes if you're not buying bulk so anything to maximise investment appeals greatly. It's a rare treat for me these days - just a gram or two every coupla months at most rather than a minimum of a gram a week when it was legal here. Nothing worse than getting my lil treat in and blazing though it in a day or two which is how it's gone the last coupla times. Some sites seem to sell pretty shoddy product at massively inflated prices. Bloody UK ban

[stuffmonger]

Crack cocaine is not the bloody free base.

FREE BASE. WHAT IS THE PROBLEM OF UNDERSTANDING THE TERM FREE?
Are you a crackhead?

crack cocaine = cocain hydrogencarbonate + left over nacl

you even concede yourself to don t know anything about chemistry.
then don t trying to explain it to me.
stim users tolerance with wrong posts is always low

Well.... clearly, since you understand it, I'm not trying to explain anything to you. I'm trying to answer people's questions and provide information without stepping over the "no synthesis" line. You clearly don't don't have any questions, so I'm not trying to answer them.

I do in fact understand that the greenish-yellow oil is in fact the freebase form of mdpv, and have said so. Many times in this thread. I just don't have any interest in mdpv. I think it's a sucky substance. I do have an interest in whatever it is turning into - which is unquestionably not mdpv.

And yes, I'm not a chemist. I'm a "Tan mdpv" devotee. Nothing more. But if you have helpful suggestions for cleaning up this process, or can provide evidence, for example, for why bacteria could play no role in converting a warm, soupy dish of hydrogen, oxygen, carbon and sodium into some thing else, then I would like to hear it.

[.dp]

i appreciate your efforts, I see the difference of your process now :3
excuse me acting rude, gonna investigate it.

[stuffmonger]

i appreciate your efforts, I see the difference of your process now :3
excuse me acting rude, gonna investigate it.

No problem. You should have seen some of my forum posts on other boards when I was overdosing on pv

[Transform]

Perhaps you could send it to the ecstasydata labs in holland. They will run a GCMS to help you identify it, but it's not cheap so would be worth checking that you are allowed copies of the results.

[stuffmonger]

Perhaps you could send it to the ecstasydata labs in holland. They will run a GCMS to help you identify it, but it's not cheap so would be worth checking that you are allowed copies of the results.

I had already thought of that. problem is: They run a standard set of tests for known recreational drugs. I feel certain that this chemical will be flagged as mdpv, much like mdppp is flagged as being mdpv by standard tests. They are radically different substances yet test the same.

What I need is a more thorough analysis to get the full chemical structure. I don't trust large labs (for obvious reasons). I was hoping to find a chemical wizard who could become a compadre in this mystery.

[hx_]

I had already thought of that. problem is: They run a standard set of tests for known recreational drugs. I feel certain that this chemical will be flagged as mdpv, much like mdppp is flagged as being mdpv by standard tests. They are radically different substances yet test the same.

What I need is a more thorough analysis to get the full chemical structure. I don't trust large labs (for obvious reasons). I was hoping to find a chemical wizard who could become a compadre in this mystery.

I'm sure that there would be someone out there interested enough with access to GCMS etc that could test it for you. Just gotta hope they see the thread!

Something just popped to mind then; although unlikely, this "mystery-pseudo-mdpv" could fall outside the cathinone ban!

[yeppuni]

I have a lot of experiences to change MDPV HCl salt to Freebase, with several methods.
At now the highest yield and easiest method is below;

a) Prepare something basic and hydrophilic substance, which pH must be higher than 12 (the higher pH the higher yield freebase due to existence the chemical equilibrium between MDPV-HCl, in other words ionised tertiary amine, hydrophilic style of MDPV, and MDPV freebase, in other words deionised lipophilic style of MDPV, and this balance depends on pH of aqueous layer.), for example, ammonia water NH4OH or if you could gain Sodium hydroxide solution, and non-polar solvent like hexane (Ether or methylene chloride is slightly polar and this polarity never be negligible in this case.) or pentane.

b) Put adequate amount of MDPV-HCl in a flask or a testing tube, and then pour basic aqueous liquid that is prepared. Never use hot water over 40 degree celsius because MDPV freebase is unstable, especially in the high temperature. You can confirm the changing at this time for colour turns while to yellow. MDPV freebase is white (not tan) in solid style though yellow in liquid style.

c) Pour adequate amount of non-polar solvent, and shake it. MDPV freebase is moving to non-polar layer, so this layer shows yellow, and disappears the yellow-colour substance from aqueous layer. MDPV freebase immediately decomposes in aqueous layer so hurry up. If residue substance exists in aqueous layer you have to pour non-polar solvent more amount, and do it again. At this time it must be two separated layer exist in a flask, upper is yellow organic layer and bottom is aqueous layer, this is ammonium chloride solution if you succeeded.

d) Put Non-polar layer on a dish or something, and throw aqueous layer away.

e) Wait till solvent completely volatilised. Never use heat for volatilisation, if you did MDPV would be decomposed easily and you would gain nothing. It's better to conserve lower than 10 degree Celsius temperature the environment around this step, then MDPV freebase easily appears in solid style.

f) MDPV freebase is solid at 40 degree celsius in fact, but this point it may be in oily liquid with yellow colour, then cooling the dish whole.

g) After about 12 hours MDPV freebase has turned to solid. It's white if not decomposed, so the solid is coloured at this point, you should do again with attention to temperature.

P.S.
MDPV HCl is harmful to smoke because it's close to the vaporise point and decompose point and decomposed substance is strong adrenergic toxicity. MDPV freebase, if you made properly, is almost no harm at all to smoke, but again, never forget to attention to decompose when smoked.

[yeppuni]

Some additional comment:
Baking soda, chemically Sodium Bicarbonate NaHCO3, indeed indicate alkali in solution, however this is too weak to turn MDPV-HCl to MDPV freebase. If you heat the solution then little amount of MDPV freebase may yield, but this has already decomposed due to heat and smoking this substance is very dangerous to your cardiac system.

[Onandoff]

thnx for the posts above yeppuni.
appreciate it

[stuffmonger]

I have a lot of experiences to change MDPV HCl salt to Freebase, with several methods.
At now the highest yield and easiest method is below;

a) Prepare something basic and hydrophilic substance, which pH must be higher than 12 (the higher pH the higher yield freebase due to existence the chemical equilibrium between MDPV-HCl, in other words ionised tertiary amine, hydrophilic style of MDPV, and MDPV freebase, in other words deionised lipophilic style of MDPV------

----the yellow-colour substance from aqueous layer. MDPV freebase immediately decomposes in aqueous layer so HURRY UP. -----

---- Never use heat for volatilisation, if you did MDPV would be decomposed easily ---

Absolutely correct. If it's the pure mdpv oil you're after, these steps are extremely important and I urge you to adhere to them strictly. MDPV does indeed decompose in water, over time, and with heat.

I, however, don't particularly like mdpv, and simply let it decompose. So..... I liberally use water, I don't hurry up (I wait up to a week), and I do use heat (but not too much, else you won't like the decomposition overmuch).

[stuffmonger]

Some additional comment:
Baking soda, chemically Sodium Bicarbonate NaHCO3, indeed indicate alkali in solution, however this is too weak to turn MDPV-HCl to MDPV freebase. If you heat the solution then little amount of MDPV freebase may yield, but this has already decomposed due to heat and smoking this substance is very dangerous to your cardiac system.

While I agreed fully with your previous post, I have to disagree with this. If you use only NaHCO3 at room temperature, and gently agitate the solution, it will indeed freebase mdpv. Here's a photo of the oil collected from a room temperature freebase:



The precipitate at the bottom is due to drawing it up into the hypodermic needle along with the oil (unintentional) when I extract the oil.

You may notice that it has already started to to darken from decay due to contact with the water and air during the freebasing. I will now slowly heat it to hasten its decay.

[Evad]

how about heating the sodium bicarb in water to produce sodium carbonate (a stronger base) if one is needed.

[yeppuni]

In fact, MDPV-HCl turns MDPV freebase in saturated solution of NaHCO3 certainly, but its pH is about 8.4, this is very close to MDPV itself in the aspect how basic it is, so you cannot adequately extract from aqueous layer to organic layer. Aqueous layer in your photo may quite much MDPV-HCl exist, so this method yields very low. In short, it's not impossible but very inefficient and wasteful. And because of your notice of decay in water I recommend to use the substance most basic you can gain legally and to move organic layer rapidly.

[yeppuni]

Sodium Bicarbonate turns into Sodium Carbonate, which is relatively strong base, at about 70 degree celsius. So it's one of the right way to boil NaHCO3 solution, then cool down this to 10 degree celsius and then pour MDPV-HCl in it.

P.S.
I do not recommend to this method because NaHCO3 is relatively less soluble to Na2CO3 so if you use this you have to boil saturated NaHCO3 solution and when turn into Na2CO3 add NaHCO3 again, unless you could gain adequate amount of Na2CO3 solution.

[Mental Kenny]

Keep on posting guys, although I'm having a hard time understanding anything I still find this thread extremely interesting! If only meth cooking had been a part of my chemistry school curriculum.

[yeppuni]

Anyone who don't have sufficient level of chemistry and biology knowledge should not use any substances. It's responsible to have adequate science level at least for understanding my posting, unless bring incidents and it must be controlled, and this is huge crisis against science.

[knock]

Anyone who don't have sufficient level of chemistry and biology knowledge should not use any substances. It's responsible to have adequate science level at least for understanding my posting, unless bring incidents and it must be controlled, and this is huge crisis against science.

This is more than slightly unrealistic.

[yeppuni]

It's certainly unrealistic to demand full knowledge to all RC users but it's ideal.

[knock]

It's certainly unrealistic to demand full knowledge to all RC users but it's ideal.

Is it ideal, then, that to enjoy the finest of cuisine, one must be a Michelin starred chef?

Or to make toast, or just a sandwich, one must be confident baking bread?

[Mental Kenny]

It's certainly unrealistic to demand full knowledge to all RC users but it's ideal.

I have a lot of knowledge on how drugs and the human body interact, definately not enough to mess around with the chemicals, changing their nature like you're doing.