My fiance and i just gave birth to a baby girl. I was prescribed subutex as i was addicted to heroin and they told me this would be safe for the baby even thought the baby will have to go through withdrawals and children and families social services wil get a report filed. I live in Ma, they call it DCF here dept pf children and families. Unfortunately 3 weeks b4 i was due i relapsed on H. I went in for an ultrasound and they told me I needed an emergency induction as the baby was not growing and i was low on amniotic fluid and that she would do better outside my body. this was the day after i relapsed. Obv when she was born and they tested her and i, i tested + for opiates. I was prescribed cough syrup with morphine and i told them thata was what it was. They said that they were gonna send it to an outside lab for further testing & a breakdown of what the opiate was. I know they only had 3 oz of urine and with other tests they had to use it for i am praying they did not have enough to get the breakdown. My fiance was and i were IV the subutex, so i did have fresh track marks which the nurses noted in my file. My fiance will need to b drug tested he was taking subutex and klonopin. So the MAIN question is how long will it take to be undetectable. Also if anyone knows any info on MA DCF could u please share with me. I was also told they can test the babies first stool and detect illicut drug use for up to 4 to 5 months from due date which was jan 28th. Can they break the stool down and find out exactly what was taken just like with the urine?
Im trying to do my best and have exactly one week and one day clean! Its a start and im gonna get there for my baby!
Will i lose my baby? what can DCF DO?
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I dont think this is the right forum for this but Ill do my best to answer ur post anyways.
Also, just so you know, drug testing questions aint allowed here on BL. So the part of your question that you are asking how long will this or that be detectable, is gonna end up gettin edited outta there. seriously tho--just look it up on google, this information aint hard to find at all. So we cant help you with your questions about how long does your mans drugs show up, or how long the heroin will be detectable as specifically dope and not morphine, etc.
but, ima answer the rest of ur questions as best i can for now.
I just delivered my son on dec 21st, and I was on methadone the whole time. I got a history of heroin addiction but Im scripted the methadone for chronic pain. I got a legit injury from a car accident a few years back, and found a doctor who was willing to script me pain meds knowing that i had a addiction history..the perfect compromise was methadone since its harder to abuse and still effective for pain, plus i get the benefit of bein on methadone that i would if i was on MMT, even tho that aint the reason I am scripted the done.
I was worried before i had him becuz i had heard that the state law in NJ is that any baby born with methadone in its system even if it aint illicit use, the law is that the hospital gotta notify DYFS (divison of youth and family services here in nj.) i asked even tho i am on it for pain , and not drug addiction? They said yes, which i thought was ridiculous, becuz if say i broke my arm a week before i had the baby and was on vicodin for it or somethin, i dont think they would do that. But, that was the situation for me. I was worried that DYFS would get involved, becuz even tho I aint bein treated for drugs they could look up my record and see my 3 heroin related arrests, 2 of them felonies, etc and get all up in my shit.
It turns out that they didnt notify nobody at all, even with a note in my file of past heroin abuse. Of course its different for me than for you since you tested positive for heroin.
They will be able to tell its dope since there is a certain metabolite that comes up after heroin use that is specific to heroin and dont come up for morphine, 6-MAM (monoacetylmorphine.) thats how they distinguish between heroin and morphine use in GCMS tests.but it sounds like u already knew that theyd be able to tell.
There is a few things that i would recommend for you to do. I think this post would really do better off in Legal Discussion becuz they can answer shit there that they aint gonna be able to tell you here.
--First thing find out the state law where you live at, that states wat happens to a baby whose mother tests positive for illicit drug use.
--See if you can find reference cases dealin with similar situations, i was able to read a few court cases that happened in NJ that dealt with a dope addicted mother whose baby was positive for heroin use and who relapsed a few times and how/why her kid got took away by DYFS.
I aint sure if they automatically take the kid away right away on the first dirty test.
but you need to be prepared that they very well might yo. There is a decent chance i would say, even without knowin the law exactly but just knowing how serious that DYFS and child welfare agencies take this shit, that they will take her away.
The good news is that after you can prove that you are a fit mother you should be able to get her back without too much of a long time away from her. Like i said this shit totally depends on your state law i only know about NJ. But , you got a chance to make up for it and do right by her so you are gonna have to prove to the courts that you are fit to get her back if they do take her.
Thats gonna involve alot of shit, and heres some of my suggestions for some pre emptive action u can take to show that u are takin effort to fix your mistakes ASAP and want to prove you can be a good mom.
--Get enrolled in some kind of treatment program asap. I dont know how bad your dope habit was, if methadone is really necessary, becuz if suboxone can hold you, sometimes methadone is worse of a habit to take on. I only usually recommend meth. for people whose habit was too large that suboxone could not hold them physically.
But, in your case...suboxone aint really monitored by the dr other than your piss test when you get the script. that gives you a whole month or 2 to get high. The good side of methadone is that when you on a clinic there is constant monitoring. random piss tests, and some pretty strict rules n regulations that keep you on track. Its really hard to use while you on the clinic and make it worth it bcuz even if you dont get caught the high aint worth a shit cuz the done blocks the hell out of it. So you might wanna consider bein on methadone instead of sub just for the fact that its more easier to prove that you aint using.
But the alternative to that , and really a better choice i woudl think is my next suggestion...
JOIN A IOP!! Intensive outpatient could be exactly the thing u need to proove that u are complying with not using dope becuz u go everyday of the week and get tested 3 times a week usually, on a schedule that makes it impossible to use in between tests without gettin caught. If you do that, its pretty much "insurance" of you not using, and that proves to the authorities that you are in fact stayin clean since there is physical proof as evidence. A intensive outpatient program like that is usually the kind of thing that they will require you to do, to get your kid back, its a standard thing in alot of cases like this.
If you get enrolled in one now, before they can send you, it shows that you are really makin a effort. Another up side is this: Alot of times it takes awhile for shit to move thru the court system. Say a judge tells you that in order to get ur daughter back you gotta complete X amount of months in a IOP and test clean for at least that long before they will consider givin ur parental rights back. If you are already in the program before they sentence you to it, you can already have a month or 2 under your belt, so instead of havin to be without ur daughter for 2 months before the court hearing and then 3 months of IOP afterwards, you can already have 2 of those 3 months completed and possibly get credit for "time served" in the program u feel me?
And i aint saying this as a definite thing but just as a possibility that could happen, so dont take it like i am tellin you how it will go here just offerin some ideas, from knowin how the courts tend to work and some of their standard things that are common for them to tell people to do in probation violation situations, DYFS, etc.
On top of that, another thing that the court just fuckin loves is NA meetings. Personally i think NA/AA is garbage, but hey the courts just love that shit. And if its somethin that actually ends up bein helpful to you too then thats a good thing, it dont work for everybody but it can help some people so if you one of those people then nevermind my personal opinion of it. But either way the fact is that the courts just love to see you go do NA meetings, they seem to think its like the magical solution for drug addiction. So you go to NA meetings a few nights a week and get documentation of that (usually there is a sheet that probation officers, etc will give you, that you can write down the details o f the meeting and then get the lead meeting guy to sign it, so ask the NA folks about it, or if u cant get one then make up your own if u got ur own computer and printer.) and that will also look good for you. You do the IOP, that covers the part of verifying that u got clean urine and aint been using. But not only do they want for u to simply not be using--they also want you to "RECOVER!" and proof that u are doin that aswell, not just not using. so, NA covers that part.
You can also do private drug counseling...All the county hospitals that I know of around here at least, offer free counseling. If you aint got insurance, you can get charity care thru the hospital (its pretty easy--you aint got a job? You aint got insurance? you will get approved) and then you can go and have one on one drug counseling sessions. get verification of that , have them write you a letter once a week or however often u go there, and get all your documentiation of it like the name of your counselor, how often u go, their phone number, etc, and that combined with the NA, you are showin some serious initiative, and showing them that you are workin hard on your recovery.
Also, all the methadone clinics that I know of around here at least all offer counseling -- thru your personal counselor that you get assigned to when you join, and also thru their group meetings. they usually have em a few days a week , and you can go there and they just do you know, "group therapy" or watever with the othere clinic patients. If you join the clinic you also got that as an option.
All the shit that I suggested is either free, or the county/state will usually pay for it. Like if the court sentences you to IOP or w/ever, and you cant afford to pay, they usually got a program in place that the state pays for it, they did for me. So you aint gotta pay nothin to get this shit done, and it will make a HUGE difference in how the judge sees you.
That advice will do you good whether or not they take away your daughter. If they do, its shit that you will most likely have to do , in order to get her back. If they DONT take her, it will most likely be on the conditions that you do some or all of those things, so they can have some kind of reassurance that they aint just releasing her to a junkie whose gonna keep using and put her in danger. ALso, there might be shit that I didnt write about on here that they require you to do, like maybe they wont be satisfied with just IOP, maybe they will want you do complete a inpatient program , etc, so consider my post to just be the tip of the iceberg, u feel me?
anyways, I could say alot more about this but I know this post is already mad long and i dont wanna make it so long that you dontt wanna read it. So ima leave it at that now. Like i said, i think that this will get moved to Legal discussion, and if it dont, you might wanna delete this one and re post it over there ,becuz thats the forum where they will be able to tell you about the local laws where you live at and the standard procedures for a situation like this. There was a article here not too long ago about a lady in Pennsylvania who ate a poppy seed muffin or bagel beforee she gave birth, and her opiate test came up positive, so they immediately took her baby away and put her in foster care for 5 days without even double-checking, even tho the broad had never used drugs in her life and had no actual drugs in her system. It was a big deal, she kept tryin to fight them and they refused to release her daughter back to her or even admit that they had been wrong until almost a week after they took her kid.
so , some places can be strict as fuck when it comes to a baby testin positive for drugs especially opiates they really seem to see heroin as the worst. So, U def. need to be prepared to lose your baby yo. But there are things you can do, to get her back and I hope that i offered some info. that can help you do that, if it does come down to that. Also check your PM's becuz Ima send you a message in a lil while too. good luck yo.
Last edited by Khadijah; 16-01-2011 at 01:07.
Im sorry if I'm out of line, Im sure the person above me helped, but SERIOUSLY? You knew you were having a baby and drugs could seriously effect the baby and you relapse with HEROIN??
Im sorry, you were on subtuex to get off and you were having a baby. In my perfectly honest opinion, you should not be bringing a baby into this world and not fit to be a mother , atleast in this moment in time
Edit: Also your so worried about you passing some drug tests and screenings and seeing if they can detect the drugs you've used WHILE you were in labor with the baby. Like seriousy wtf? Why are you having a child while your using opiates and heroin and using heroin 3 weeks before the due date, thats fucked up. Seems like you so much more worried about passing all these tests and what not more than your own child.
Realise you have a child now and think that your baby is coming into this world with a mom that is a heroin addict and his father does opiates too.
Im just so furious at this topic and im usually very civil. What the hell where both of you thinking bringing a baby into this world at this time
Last edited by kanyeknievel; 16-01-2011 at 02:41.
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kanyeknievel- is telling her that she shouldn't bring a baby into this world really helping anyone? the OP asked a couple of different questions which not only did you not answer, but basically the only advice you offer is "you shouldn't have had the baby" Well, if you feel so strongly then why don't you go counsel opiate-dependent pregnant women? The OP already gave birth so telling her she shouldn't have had the baby is just judgmental and really not contributing anything positive to THIS thread. FYI: opiates are not teratogenic, no doctor would ever advise a woman who is otherwise healthy that she shouldn't carry her baby to term because she happens to be using opiates, the only negative effects happen when they are DISCONTINUED, which is usually why methadone or subutex are prescribed, so a consistent dose can be maintained in the bloodstream. Granted, withdrawal symptoms are not pleasant, and nobody would suggest that is an ideal way for a newborn to come into the world, but the symptoms can be managed and only last a matter of days to a couple of weeks depending on the particular opiate/opioid, hardly an argument for saying that the baby is better off not coming into the world.
OK, to the OP now: I saw your post and it stuck out to me because I have an 11 month old son and he was born methadone-dependent, so I have some idea of what you are going through. I'm not going to make this long cuz Lacey gave you some really good advice and there's really no point in saying everything again.
I know you are concerned with what could happen if they find out you relapsed but I think you should try to be as honest as you can. As far as the questions you asked about how long the heroin would be detectable and all that, like Lacey said this isn't the place for that, but I don't think I will get in trouble for saying this much: Lab tests are pretty sophisticated and they don't need that much urine to run an analysis, so realistically I don't think you should be banking on them running out of urine before they finish the analysis. Regarding your question about meconium (first bowel movement) testing, it's my understanding that it can be analyzed back to the first trimester. From the title of your post it sounds like your daughter is going through withdrawals, so the doctors are probably pretty certain that you were using some kind of opiate for the majority of your pregnancy, they are probably just trying to figure out what. I guess it's up to you to weigh the pros and cons of telling them about the relapse even though they may not have otherwise known or denying everything and possibly getting caught in a lie.
Whatever you do though, I'm gonna agree with Lacey and say, get your ass in a treatment program ASAP. If shit goes down and you do have to deal with custody issues, it is going to look so much better that you are willingly seeking out help. And 9 times out of 10 it would be a condition of getting custody back anyways, so you would just be ahead of the game. I'm not sure how much interaction you have had with social workers or case workers up until this point, but I'm just going to tell you what everyone told me when I was dealing with all that shit, if you are taking care of yourself you have nothing to worry about they dont WANT to take a baby from it's mother. For the most part I think that's true and that you shouldn't worry too much. Right now you are all your baby needs and don't let anybody tell you anything different. I hope everything works out and that your baby girl is doing good.
Last edited by K8eBayB; 16-01-2011 at 10:14.
Think about this situation, clearly she cares more about being high than her own daughter. And if you dont agree, then I dont know what else to tell you.
How terrible does that sound, a baby's first feeling coming into the world is the agony of WITHDRAWAL.
Tell me that doesn't sound horrible
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- Yo, Charlie Sheen, if you're reading this, PM me. We'd be bros.
I'm with knievel on this one. Makes me sick to think that somebody would do H while pregnant.
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Im not sure what to say here. I didnt read the above posts, but I am sure most of them are telling you youre an idiot for doing heroin while pregnant.
You were on subutex.... that is perfectly fine, it is safe and the baby does not go through withdrawals in the womb. How the fuck did you manage to relapse on heroin while on subutex, you couldnt just take your dose and take care of cravings that way? That is pretty fucking ridiculous especially with only 3 weeks left.
Its pretty harsh to say you dont deserve that baby, I am not one to decide, I cant make a judgement because I dont know all the details, but just from that it would seem youre an unfit mother I am pretty soft when it comes to that kind of stuff. I mean, 3 weeks left and youre on subutex which is to save that baby, and you go get high and it fucked him up. I hope you feel bad about yourself, but I also hope you get your baby back if you actually are capable of taking care of it.
That's really the question, I mean a newborn going through withdrawals is bad, but a kid growing up in a druggie house for 18 years is worse.
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I think some of y'all are being kinda harsh on the mother. She was already on subs, so the child was gonna WD regardless of whether she had a relapse or not.
Is it wonderful that her baby was born in this state? No, I don't think anyone is argueing that, and I don't think any mother wants this for their child. Would it be nice if every baby in the world was born under the most healthy and pleasant circumstances? Of course. This is REALITY though, and unless you have something positive to add to this thread, I'd suggest you go join the debate club. The LAST thing she needs is more guilt, as I'm sure she isn't really feeling to great about the situation already.
To the OP, I wish you nothing but the best, and I hope for your sake and your daughters you are able to find the help you need and stay clean. I'm sorry that I don't have more to add.
I didnt read the responses but they most likely wont be able to tell you were doing heroin. 6-mam clears your system fast i read 12 hours so you will test positive for morphine which your story will cover. I hope you get your shit strait for your kids sake otherwise please consider adoption your not gonna be any good for the kid if your addicted to heroin.
^ totally agree. I knew a girl who gave her baby up for adoption and still got to visit and see her sometimes. She continued to use and felt her baby was much better off being raised by someone else. I thought that was incredibly mature of her.
I used in the 4th month and her meconium tested + for morphine.
Ever since then I was on methadone and had no problems with social services.
If the baby is in the hospital they have a very good protocol for helping babies in this predicament. The only problem my baby had was no being able to sleep well for the first 3 weeks. Last doctor appointment the doctor said that she is advanced physically and in terms of communication.
She now is a very bright and beautiful 5 month old. Very happy and well taken care of baby. As long as you stop using the baby will not be harmed in the long term.
Also if you can try to get your family involved in this situation. What is important is the baby. His parents and your parents should help if they can. Drug addiction is not easy and its hard to get out of it alone but having help increases your chances of success a lot.
My husband and I moved in with my parents and his mother also came to live with us. I will continue school and concentrate on baby the rest of time. Lots of people to take care of baby while I can continue with my life so that baby will have a future just like any other baby.
Just cause parents start out as drug addicts doesn't mean they baby will live in a drug house for the remaining of the lives. That is so rude to assume. My house is nothing like a drug house and many many babies would love to be where my baby is. She gets everything she needs.
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just wanted to point out tofoxyloxy25 who said that it aint accurate to say she cares more about gettin high than her daughter and that if you say that it means you are ignorant about opiate addiction....
Listen, I was a heroin addict for quite a few years. And I got clean in september of 09 but i used here and there, maybe every month and a half at the most frequent after that. But then I got pregnant and you better believe I stopped doin that shit immediately. I agree that if she did that shit, that close to givin birth, that she was bein selfish. I got the experience to back up that opinion. just becuz you addicted dont mean that you aint got a choice, or that you aint responsible for your decisions. if you are gettin high that close to your due date knowing that you could get found out, then you really obviously are more worried about gettin high than wat might happen to your baby.
I know how hard it is to stop usin. i got arrested 3 times, was on probation, failed a piss test, kept using....couldnt stop usin to save my relationship of 5 years with the guy who loved me more than anything, couldnt stop to save my relationship with my family and their trust, and so on. (eventually got that back, and my man, so it was ahappy ending ) But I sure as shit could stop for my baby.
You got alot of choices, and some of them are harder. some are so hard that you really cant make them--until somethin comes along that you care about enough to change.
I didnt care enough about stayin outa jail or outa trouble. I didnt even care enough about the guy i loved more than i loved myself, I mean I thought that I did but I couldnt stop usin could i? so in the end, I guess that i had my priorities fucked up. and when i was using, i really didnt think that to keep using and blowin him off to go cop all the time, etc didnt mean that i was choosing dope over him. but now that I stopped using, i see that it did mean that.
Bein pregnant made such a difference to me, knowing that this baby was depending on me to protect him and take care of him...It was enough to not touch that dope as soon as i knew i was pregnant that was it. Addiction is strong, the desire to use is strong, but IT IS CONTROLLABLE, and anybody who tries to tell u otherwise is full of shit. It might be incredibly hard to control. And you might not even WANT to control it. That was my position--I didnt WANT to stop anyways, so of course i couldnt stop if i wouldnt even give it an honest try. But when it comes down to it, the ability IS there.
Its just that for most of us addicts, it takes a looooonnnng time before that one thing that makes us stop will happen. its different for everybody. for some people, the only thing that can make them stop is getting a piss test everyday from their PO, knowing that if they fail they go to jail. it can take some severe, extreme-ass measures to give some people the control to stop.
But for each person that point is there. And im just sayin--if being pregnant and having a kid AINT that point, then you should reconsider havin that child. If bein pregnant aint enough to make you stop, AT LEAST just for the 9 mos that you are pregnant for then IDK how much of parent material you are.
I didnt want to say somethin in my first post that didnt help but honestly, now that I said my helpful piece, I cant help but put this out there. The post i quoted just made me have to reply becuz I am someone who been in this position and DIDNT do the same thing so I know its possible--and saying about how it aint her fault and all that...Well....Its kinda bullshit.
You know, if some shit happened like your mother died or some shit like that, maybe i could understand it more.
But just getting high becuz you want to get high...when you only got THREE WEEKS to go anyways...That just strikes me as selfish as hell.
Cuz relapses dont just "happen." Dope dont just sneak in your window at night and jump into your veins. And at every point along the way to that "relapse", you know wats about to happen , until you are there with a needle in your arm.
And at every point along that way, you do get the choice to decide not to. Right up until that moment that you stick it in your vein, you got the chance to turn around. i know it, becuz I done it before. ive had that needle full up right in front of me and put it down and not used. It can be done. And you might not have a whole lotta motivation NOT to do it when you are just your regular self. I know that much. But if you are pregnant and responsible for another life too, well then i would hope that your motivation might be a lil bit higher.
And i just want to point somethin out about the original post.
Nowhere in that post does it say a damn thing about "im so worried i might lose my daughter, i love her so much and i cant bear the thought of losing her, I feel so bad for wat I did, I feel so terrible and guilty about this, im so sorry that I used and I would give anything to turn back and fix it so i just hope that i get to keep my baby" or NOTHING like that. The ENTIRE post is just concerned with gettin caught. it sounds like she is more worried about gettin caught and getin into trouble than she is about losing her daughter, or her daughters wellbeing.
Maybe if the OP expressed a little bit of regret, of apology, of guilt, or somethin, people might be a lil bit easier on her, but instead the whole thing seems to be all about her and how she can keep her ass outta trouble, and not at all about her baby.
I think thats why people are so disgusted or put off by it.
And I am usually the LEAST judgemental person when it comes to shit like this. Becuz I know how hard it is to be a dope addict and be pregnant , and how you want to do somethin to get high, ANYTHING, to just nod again. Even tho my whole pregnancy I honestly was so happy to be pregnant and so excited to have my son that i didnt ever really have any real cravings or any real desire to get high, I did dream about it alot for some reason, and there was times where I did think about how good it would feel to catch a good nod, but it was more casual daydreaming than hardcore craving. But still, Im just sayin, I aint speaking about somethin i dont know about. I been there done that and thats why I feel like Im justified to throw in my 2 cents here.
Once you are gonna be a parent, thats it. You cant do shit based on the things YOU want no more.
You gotta think about shit the way it might affect your kid and your life with your kid.
If you are 3 weeks from your due date, and you are going to a doctor visit, you dont fucking use dope! Doctors CONSTANTLY test your piss for drugs, and everytime you give a urine sample you should assume that its gettin drug tested. And even if you are goin somewhere that never tests you and never takes a sample, you still cant be sure, so on the off chance that they might test you, you say "well, they prolly wont test me, but just in case , I better not use becuz if i got caught there would be hell to pay."
If you are 3 weeks from your due date, you gotta remember that anything can happen. If you thinkin about doin dope, you say to yourself..."well, shit. I most likely have 3 weeks until i deliver, which means that me and the baby would test clean by then if i use now. BUT--who knows when i will deliver? babies come early all the time and Im really close now. So theres a chance i could go into labor in the next 5 days and get caught while im still dirty. And even if that chance is really small, if that DID happen, i could lose my baby. So, just to be safe, I better not use."
When you are doing something, and if you get caught, you lose your custody of your kid, you want to make sure there is NO chance of gettin caught.
Even if the chance of gettin caught is 0.01 , and the chance of not gettin caught is 99.99%, you STILL dont do it. Becuz if there is even a 0.01`% chance of losing your baby, you say fuck that, I love my kid, he means so much to me that I wont even risk it no matter HOW small the risk is.
A person who uses during their pregnancy DOES NOT automaticly deserve to be judged as a bad parent. There is many things surrounding that use that make a difference in my opinion about it. I aint just gonna give a snap judgement on it, so dont think Im someone who would just think any and everybody who uses when they pregnant is a bad person, cuz I dont think that at all. It all depends on the context. but in this context, i really cant help but feel like its fucked up wat the girl did, and the fact that she didnt even seem to feel bad about it makes me even less sympathetic...