N-methyl-phenylethylamine anyone?

[oxidativeamination]

ah perhaps this is a more appropiate place for my post. apology to administrative members who were forced to deal with it originally.

anyway,

so the story goes as such, SWIM has done quite a bit of experimentation with oral dosing of PEA hcl with varying but mostly highly charged euphoric, stimulating and tingly results lasting aronud half an hour at doseages around the 2gm mark.
despite shulgin denoting PEA as without central effect i must sorely dissagree.
anyway this has all been said before so ill get on with my point.

now as we know PEA is a mono-amine (only one alkyl substitute on the amine group) and mono amines are the ones rapidly metabolized by MAO in the liver.
so if we where to add a methyl, ethyl or butyl group to the nitrogen creating a secondary amine derivative, would this new compound then be spared a horrible and swift demise at the claws of MAO?
any speculation as to added effects in these new compounds?

one could accomplish such a thing by vapourizing their phenylethylamine with some chloromethane/ethane and pyridine to soak the excess HCL no?

any speculation on possible routes of alpha-methylation will also greatly interest me i have searched far and low for this information to absolutely no avail. the info just isnt out there as far as i can discern.

any comments would be much appreciated thankyou bluelighters
oxidativeamination

[^Xayo]

n-methyl-PEA would be broken down less rapidly because n-demethylation has to take place before it can be attacked by the MAO's. There may also be some serotonergic activity looking at MDA->MDMA ; Amphetamine -> N-Methyl Amphetamine

[negrogesic]

This crap is in some of those OTC "weight-loss" products. Just get some amphetamines.......the doses needed for these gray market/legal phenylethylamines are very high, have all sorts of unpleasant side-effects, and while active, the CNS-stimulation is of very poor quality. I see no reason to poison oneself

And we cannot getting into "alpha-methylation" here, as that is getting into synthesis. I will say this; d-methamphetamine is very easy to make, idiots who know nothing of chemistry often use a rather crude and dirty "cold cook" method (this is public knowledge).......but you will have to investigate that elsewhere. The only thing easier is the synthesis of methcathinone, which is rather shitty drug. Understand that the clandestine synthesis of methamphetamine (and drugs in general) is taken very seriously by US law enforcement and can carry some very hefty prison sentences. Even I admit that the proliferation of methamphetamine has become a bit of problem (although I do not advocate incarceration for drug offenses, unless they are accompanied with violence, other crimes, etc). In almost all cases it is far safer to buy drugs than to make them........

[ebola?]

There may also be some serotonergic activity looking at MDA->MDMA ; Amphetamine -> N-Methyl Amphetamine

The binding affinity stats that I've seen on phenethylamine shows that it is even more selective for NE than d-amp. N-methylation might improve things, but really, I don't see much promising SAR wise.

[oxidativeamination]

ah.. well thankyou ebola and xayo for your speculation into the matter...
added serotonergic activity would be most interesting i think.

negrogesic i think you do not understand my point. it is not to synthesize a "meth analog"
or street drug. i am interested in the action of PEA itself. i find it to be a much cleaner stim than any alpha-methylated counterpart. albeit far too short lived. my only concern here is speculation of possible lengthing or modification of THAT action.

[satsumas]

hey, did you find out anything more about lengthening PEAs effects? i had a profound repsonse to PEA in treating my depression, but only at high doses, but it was so spiky, i had to redose every few hours even with an MAO inhibitor.

I would love to come up with a "time release" version of b-PEA that could be dosed once or twice a day, be much smoother, but retain it's euphoric/mood elevating effects.

i have seen some n-methyl or whatever analogs of PEA in diet pills, but never have seen that chemical available in volume separate from diet pills, or in reasonbly large doses. have you heard of it's availability at all?

there seem to be various versions of PEA, I can't find much in terms of their different properties online, can you point to any links or resources you've found?

i'm somewhat interested in potentailly commercializing a long-acting form of PEA, as PEA had a profound effect on my mood, and addictive tendencies when I was on it, but I had to stop taking it because of tolerance and side effects from the rapid dosing and spiking pharmacokinetics.

[sekio]

Your "long acting" form of PEA is called amphetamine.

PEA, like you say, is just not suitable for long-term usage because it is metabolized way too fast.

[Hammilton]

I've played around with extended release phenethylamine tablets. It was a lot of work, though, and was basically a wax-based pill. I tested them in a 10% hydrochloric acid solution, looking to see how long it took them to dissolve. Too much work, too chancey to ingest a few hours worth of phenethylamine at once. If it fails there's a good chance you could die.

My experience with a phenethylamine overdose has already been detailed here, but suffice it to say, it was not pleasant.

[Smyth]

Your "long acting" form of PEA is called amphetamine.

PEA, like you say, is just not suitable for long-term usage because it is metabolized way too fast.

Agreed. But PEA is quite easily found atm and is not illegal.

Maybe one could prepare 2-phenethylpiperidine just to see if it is active. Who knows?

[FlyBoy81]

I've taken "diet" pills with this stuff in it. It lasts for perhaps up to an hour, more like 30-45 minutes. I did have an experience with one particular brand of diet pill that was "timed release" and it had some various MAOIs in it, but both times I took it, I got ill and puuked. I wouldn't mess with the MAOIs...just get some type of amphetamine.

[(zonk)]

I can attest to the negative effects of a PEA overdose, It took weeks to recover from, and the initial overdose gave me the worst fucking migraine you could never even imagine. Couldn't fuck or do anything even slightly strenuos for weeks or the headache/migraine would return. It was bad, i'd rather have a bad trip or something then go thru that again, i consider myself lucky, that was no joke

[Everlasting Reign]

i am interested in the action of PEA itself. i find it to be a much cleaner stim than any alpha-methylated counterpart. albeit far too short lived. my only concern here is speculation of possible lengthing or modification of THAT action.

Lol? You consider PEA to be a "cleaner stimulant" than amphetamine? HaHaHaHa....

[indelibleface]

I still would like to hear reports of the effects of selegiline + methylenedioxy-phenethylamine, if just for sheer curiosity.

[(zonk)]

U probly will, one of these days... before that u'll probly hear one on 4-FluoroPEA which probly doesn't sound as interesting but my experience with 4FA+Pargyline was very similar to MDMA. I was gonna try 3-methoxyPEA but due to the fact that it o-demethylates so fast into a cardiac stim I don't think it would be worthwhile even combined with a CYP450 inhibitor. 3,4-DMOPEA was pretty cool! MDOPEA is not so common and surprisingly pricey however i'm sure that could be changed with enough searching/haggling. MDMPEA should be just as easy to procure as it's just as easy to make or just 1 simple extra step from MDPEA. Or perhaps n-benzyl-DMPEA...

[ebola?]

I still would like to hear reports of the effects of selegiline + methylenedioxy-phenethylamine, if just for sheer curiosity.

U probly will, one of these days...

We will? The more exotic compounds requiring inhibition of MAOB are pretty 'niche'.

4-FluoroPEA which probly doesn't sound as interesting but my experience with 4FA+Pargyline was very similar to MDMA.

I know there's no sourcing, but I'm surprised that this appeared on the market at all.

3,4-DMOPEA was pretty cool!

Do you know, off-hand, whether its amphetamine analogue exerts similar effects sans inhibition of MAOB?

Or perhaps n-benzyl-DMPEA...

Interesting idea (maybe the potentiation of psychedelia will more closely resemble that of the substituted 2Cs rather than DOXs). But how about 2-methoxy-benzyl instead?

ebola

[sekio]

I think in Braden's thesis there was mention of 2,4-dimethoxy-N-(2-methoxybenzyl)-PEA. Perhaps there are more methoxy-substitutents in the future of psychedelics.

[(zonk)]

the reason i say n-benzyl rather than NBOMe or similar is that the synthesis required to make NBOMe is WAAYYYY more expensive than the very cheap and very simple to produce N-Benzyl.
Also, I think the "market" you are referring to is a different market than the one these MAOI needed compounds come from, that's y i say u will(atleast from me u will)
I think I've seen the 3,4-DMA on the scene but i knew nothing about the supplier- never bothered to investigate...

[piece of infinity]

In TiHKAL we can read that eating tryptophan + methionine in the same time will results in DMT, NMT or a similar compound (sufficiently to have at least low effects if you take many doses of tryptophan and methionine). We could also smoke/cook tryptophan to directly get tryptamine and eating methionine.
Apparently if we eat phenylethylamine/phenethylamine and methionine we get amphetamine, mescaline or similar compounds. We could also smoke/cook phenylalanine if we can't have any PEA.
I'm not chemist so I don't know what reactions but I did some deductions from that I read about production of DMT in the brain after taking supplements.

You can also take trimethylglycine.

[sekio]

Apparently if we eat phenylethylamine/phenethylamine and methionine we get amphetamine,

I wish it were so.

[(zonk)]

it may(or maynot)be possible to forcefully bio-o-methylate the 2 hydroxy groups of dopamine in the dopamine metabolic pathway to get 3,4-dimethoxyphenethylamine but this like in the dmt biosynthesis is pointless without an MAOI and the dosage needed for straight DMPEA+MAOI is very high which is dangerous given the fact that this would also create 4-methoxyPEA(similar to PMA)and MeoHO-PEA(probly very adrenergic)this is in addition to the high levels of tyrosine/tyramine/dopamine needed to be in the body in the 1st place which is probly more dangerous than any of the by-products.
I have no idea if N-methylation will occur but i can say alpha-methylation or methoxylation(as in mesc) won't.

If you are looking to make readily available OTC supplements into psychedelics I was thinking [edit: that we don't allow synthesis discussion in our forums.]

[/navarone/]

Sounds lamer than l-pseudoephedrine...