Reading through this forum (and Erowid), these topics have piqued my interest for quite a while. I was always interested in learning how to do them, but I guess I always seemed it was "fake" or just some sort of drug-induced type of thing. But I've read some stories of people who claim to actually achieve it, and I'm interested in knowing more about it.
What are the benefits of astral projection, out of body experiences (are they the same thing? :/), meditation, and lucid dreaming? Are drugs NECESSARY in order for these things to occur?
I'm interested and want to try it, however, I have absolutely ZERO experience with any of these. Any tips for a beginner? How, exactly, are these things achieved? And can someone explain to me what they're like?
I guess I have a lot of questions lol sorry. Didn't want to make a million separate threads.
Ohh another one is hypnosis. Anyone know anything about that? Mostly interested in self-hypnosis.. though idk if that's even possible?
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- Join Date
- May 2011
I've read quite a bit about it, I bought a couple of books on the subject too and read some interesting stories.
I think that Robery Monroe is someone that you should look up regarding astral projection. He seems to be the leader in the field, well he was when I last checked, i'm not sure at the moment. I just googled and found that one of his books, Ultimate Journey is available here in full in pdf format. I have read this book and it is a great read. I would definitely recommend it if you are thinking about trying to achieve it.
I failed in all of my attempts to leave my physical body willingly without drugs, it requires a lot of patience and determination and not everyone will be able to do it. I keep meaning to take up the hobby of trying to do it again, and think I might now I have seen this thread to refresh my interest in it.
With regards to Lucid Dreaming, I have achieved that quite a lot of times, the key is to do "reality checks" during normal life, this would be things such as looking at the clock, and seeing the time then looking away and then back at the clock again to see if it is the same time. Sometimes I have realised that I am actually in a dream, rather than awake as I first thought because for example the time has changed by 6 hours or so during the 1 second it took me to look back at the clock. There are other ways to do reality checks too. If you make a habit of doing mini reality checks regularly during life then you may find yourself doing it in a dream and realise you are in the dream.
The key to staying in the dream once you realise is to not get overexcited about being in the dream as this often leads to me waking up right away, if you can notice you are dreaming and stay asleep then you shouldl be able to control the dream and lead it in any directon that you like. It is not easy to stay lucid for very long, but it is very enjoyable to do so for as long as possible. My favourite part has to be floating above the city and flying around.
I have often woken up in real life and been disappointed that I couldn't fly anymore.
- Join Date
- May 2011
Glad I could refresh your interest in it And awesome, thanks for the link to that file!! Definitely gonna be bookmarked for reference.
From your description, I think I may have reached the first "step" of lucid dreaming a number of times without even trying. I can think of a number of times where I have realized I'm dreaming in the middle of the dream, mostly during bad ones (which are the majority of my dreams anyways hah.) But whenever this happens, I've never actively tried to control it... I always just let the dream run it's course on it's own, but think in the back of my mind, "I'm not scared in this dream anymore because I know I can control it if I want to."
Although actually. After reading your response, I think I might lucid dream more often than I've realized, if the definition of "lucid dreaming" I'm thinking of is correct. Like I said, most of my dreams are nightmares, so I often have dreams where something/someone is chasing me. Now that I think about it, there have definitely been a few instances where I started to control these types of dreams. I create new ways to escape from whatever it is that's chasing me... one dream I remember I gave myself the ability to jump from rooftop to rooftop... and in those cases, the dreams turned from scary as hell to kind of fun, because I was no longer worried about whatever was chasing me because I knew it couldn't get to me unless I let it. Does that even make sense? I THINK that's what lucid dreaming is, but I guess I haven't done enough research on the topic or read enough first-hand experiences from other people to know for sure.
Other times, I'll have the same type of dream but won't realize I'm dreaming. Last night's dream, for instance. It was the same kind of dream... not sure how to describe it, but I lived in some sort of village and there was a monster-type thing that was after me for some reason. He would come at designated times during the day, from "dawn to dusk", or some shit like that, in which I was given the opportunity to try to hide from him while he tried to find and kill me. The dream gave me a plethora of places to hide and tons of options, but I was never able to create "new" hiding places that the monster-thing didn't know about. I thought it was all actually happening the entire time, even though the whole thing was completely and utterly ridiculous. I mean, talking monsters do not exist... and on top of that, I'm pretty sure the monster was one of those Neopet things.
I guess that's what got me interested in lucid dreaming in the first place. Sometimes I'll realize I'm dreaming, and other times (like last night), I won't realize it at all and I just think the whole entire thing is real. In those instances, the "thing" that's chasing me always ends up finding me and when it "kills" me is when I wake up. I don't know, it's weird. And hard to explain.
I'm pretty sure I just confused the shit out of anyone who read this, because I think I even confused myself trying to find a way to explain it lol sorry about that. These kinds of things are difficult to put into words.
I was trying to find a posting I talked about lucid dreaming in about a month ago but I can't find it, someone was asking how to lucid dream more and maintain... I just wanted to share the most amazing lucid dream I had, several nights ago. I was getting REM-rebound cuz I'd been doing speed and not sleeping more than a couple hours a night for a week or so, so when I ran out, I was sleeping bigtime, and dreaming like mad.
I always have very long and vivid dreams, rarely nightmares (except when I was in jail and in major Xanax withdrawal and with a head injury...) but last week I had two lucid dreams and I wanted to share with anyone who might be interested. The first was very simple, I was on a rooftop balcony near my home and suddenly I realized it was a dream. I immediately thought of the posting here where he was asking for some lucid dream tips, so in my dream I actually thought, "hey, I need to post this for that guy on Bluelight!" LOL. Nothing major about that dream, but the next one was TRANSCENDENT. And that word was SPOKEN to me in my actual dream as it was happening.
The dream started with me thinking of a lost love, my ex from almost 10 years ago who I think is the One who got away and I miss him all the time and we haven't talked in years... I dreamed I was in our old bed, but he was gone. I crawled out of the bed in the dream and realized I was dreaming, but I was in a college like campus class and some of the people told me that to not wake up I had to temporarily inhabit the bodies of others who were asleep.
Nothing like that has happened before, but I did just that, which was a little unnerving. I found two girls nearby me in the dream who were asleep and I "possessed" each of them until they were freaking out too much. I had to keep each one calm, and kept telling them we were "soul sisters" sharing souls while we dreamed. I actually walked around in their bodies, and had other memories that were not mine, like one girl giving birth, and the other one playing beach volleyball.
I kept them calm by lucidly picturing visual colors in the sky for them, mainly teal and pink. The weirder part was in this dream, there was like a VOICE or presence kinda informing me on what to do to make the dream better. (I don't hear voices or anything when I'm awake, or whatnot.) The voice seemed male, told me to try to focus on each color in the rainbow, including white and black though. And told me to tell the girls that each person has MANY soul sisters or soul brothers, connected kinda like string theory. I had to visualize that for them.
Normally in my lucid dreams, they are pretty short, and i am touching water or flying. This time there was a LOT more going on. (I was not on any drugs or meds while this happened, unusual for someone who relied on heavy doses of benzos for like 8 years, to sleep...) I TRIED to inhabit a male's body, but he would not have that. I did open my eyes once and saw the reflection of the streetlamps on my lamp shade but I forced myself right back into the dream.
I focused on all the colors (I used to paint abstract really colorful stuff, and i photograph really colorful abstract light photography, so I'm always into colors) and yellow/gold was VERY vivid. It was like flowing. I then was told to picture white, but I just kept seeing clouds and that was making me not see much in the dream. The voice told me that my friend is "good with the color white" and to remember that white is ALL the colors, so I had to start seeing rainbows in the clouds before I could go on with the dream.
I also was smelling a lot in the dream. (I lost my sense of smell last year due to a bad medical reaction to some medication, and it has not returned, so I can't taste or smell anymore.) I was smelling like perfume and real scents. Anyway, some smaller things happened that I don't think were quite so lucid, but eventually the voice came back and told me to FLY. So of course I did! I flew up into space, around earth (just by myself, no spaceship or anything) and came down over Africa, over some very green waters. It was then that i started making the water more blue by thinking about it, and I started hearing chanting: "MDMA. ECSTASY. MDMA. ECSTASY." In all voices, and that's when I heard "transcendent." (Yes, I was a big roller for almost 10 years,haven't done it in a couple years but I have nothing bad to say about it.... changed my life and my viewpoints so much for the better.) It was like I was supposed to TELL people that one of the ways to reach transcendence IS via MDMA! Lol. So, still lucid dreaming, I figured the best way would be to use MUSIC of course. somehow I was able to project music to everyone, so in my dream I conjured up everything from industrial/EBM (VNV Nation type) to ethereal trance to hippie style music, anything to try to communicate with people using music.
It was the ULTIMATE dream for someone like me who DREAMS about being a DJ, LOL!!! (And I am obsessed with music.)
SO, my points are: to stay in a lucid dream, the ways are really variable. I never had to posesss bodies or listen to a voice to help me out, I used to just say "Increase clarity" once I knew I was lucid dreaming and that would help. And i would fly (or just float) and always touch water to make sure it felt real. SOMETIMES I've dropped E or done speed (or drank) in lucid dreams, the E affects me exactly like it does in reality in my dreams, which is damn cool! The speed in my dreams never works. The alcohol works sometimes.
My lucid dreams used to always be me alone, sometimes with someone else sexually. I think that was just my way of seeing how real a lucid dream could get. But the latest two lucids I had were nothing like that. I seriously woke up thinking I had a near-death-experience or an OBE. (Who knows???) I guess what I'm saying is, once you KNOW you are dreaming, do whatever it takes not to wake up. And remember you can do almost ANYTHING you want, so just start experimenting. (I tried to make my ex come to me in that dream but he didn't.... however i had a non-lucid dream about him the night after, which made me sad...) But when I awoke from this major lucid dream, it was like someone had been trying to teach me a lesson that has been in several of my dreams in the past... usually having to do with understanding "pi" and eternity in an easy way (like I've dreamed of gummy bears and carnival rides that somehow explained "pi" to me... I have to say i understand it.) And that there IS something MUCH bigger than us, as most of us think or know, but sometimes we get caught up in the little shit and just forget that YES, there are HUGE things in nature and space and time and the spiritual realm that we just have no real clue about sometimes. And also the theme that life and death are, well, the same, if you think of all things being energy, and energy is always supposed to be at the same level in the universe... (theory, but I believe the energy thing.)
I don't meditate, really, so I can't say anything on that. But dreaming's my thing, and I totally had to tell about this lucid dream... I don't know if I ever had an OBE or NDE but I HAVE shared dreams with a couple people I was close to, we dreamed the same thing at the same time. That's pretty nuts.
Seriously, I thought that when I woke up, the dream state that I'd been in was VERY similar to being dead and without a physical body to tie you down. It was really eye opening. It wasn't scary at all, it was absolutely incredible and I HOPE that's what being dead is like, if not better of course!!!
I don't know how to START a lucid dream, because mine are always that I realize it while I'm already dreaming. But really, once you know you're dreaming, find ways to make yourself stay there as long as you can, because the more you do it, the easier and better it is.
(The only not great lucid times I've had are the few times i was having a semi-bad or weird dream and I literally somehow told myself, dude, you're DREAMING, just WAKE UP and I did.)
it does seem easier when you've had a short time of lack of sleep, due to whatever. On certain meds, I COULDN'T dream, and i hated that. It was an anti-depressant I'm not on anymore. But when I used to take xanax, or klonopin, at a higher amount I'd have no problem having lucid dreams.
Well I've written WAAYYYY too much, but where else can I tell a dream like that, LOL?!
I managed to achiece lucid dreaming seriously quickly and consitently a couple of years ago..
All i did was keep repeating these words over and over in my head untill i fall asleep.. "this is a dream.. i'm dreaming.. this is a dream.. im dreaming.."
Then set your alarm for 3 - 4 hours before you normally wake up.. get up and eat a small snack.. go back to sleep repeating those same lines..
I thought of this idea myself.. although im probably not the first.. the idea is to go straight back into a dream state with the words "im dreaming.. this is a dream.." still playing in your mind.. It worked very well for me.. Do it every night.. oh and keep looking at your hand through out the day.. if you consciously do this and then do it in your dream randomly.. your hand should look really messed up.. that's how i used to check if i was dreaming once becoming lucid
(Don't know if this played any part in my success but my snack was a mars bad )
Also.. what might help.. is taking a few Snt Johns Wort before you go to bed (found it produced very vivd dreams.. well.. nightmares :/) or sticking a nicotine patch on before bed.. same reason as Snt Johns Wort..
I am one of the people that naturally astral projected atleast once a week in my sleep. It may sound like fun but I had to learn how to not do it because theres bad things you can find out there... I can induce it though, just lay down on your bed and try to get as close to sleep as possible without actually falling asleep and feel the way the blood flows and how your limbs start to get that tingly numb sensation, and after a while you can force your inside soul being(i guess thats what it is) out of your physical body. It just takes lots of practice. I really wouldnt recommend doping yourself up to do it because I lost a part of me on one trip and it took a long time to get it back. I felt like I was dead inside... You really need to think about the negatives of this before you decide to do it. You can get trapped, lost, and part of you can get taken away. Theres other beings in that in between world, and no im not talking about shit from that insidious movie, but there are fucking scary things out there and just be prepared. I woke up once from a trip and there was a black shadow with pointy ears and he was trying to get inside of my body while I was gone. It was scary shit. Ive been choked and held down by these things when im close to coming back and as I said, just be prepared for ridiculous shit to happen.
As for what its like, its like youre a ghost really, and youre in the same world and place, but things are a bit different. Not everything looks the same. And there are other worlds or parallel places that you can accidentally travel to and stuff. And sometimes you can see things that are always around that you didnt know... Its interesting to say the least.
- Join Date
- Nov 2011
How astral travel compare to a dream?
And is there any chance that you might be mistaking astral travel / OBE experience for what is just a dream?
I don't mean to throw doubt on your experience, but I'd just like to know how, in your own mind, you would distinguish an OBE from a dream?
I personally think that OBEs do happen after death; there is a great deal of evidence for this. But whether OBEs can happen to the living is what I'd like to know more about.
Last edited by Hip; 23-11-2011 at 22:55.
Ive only had lucid dreaming a few times, I can feel the difference because my dreams are always crazy, like demons and monsters, so I can take over sometimes and do what I want in the dream. My astral projection is usually in my house, atleast at first, and its usually right after I fall asleep. I dont know, theres just a feeling of being completely aware that I dont have when I dream or lucid dream. Astral travel is odd, for me I can usually feel myself leaving or coming back to my body, so I know that thats what im doing first off, but sometimes I walk, sometimes i like to float around. Its usually in our normal world where I go, but sometimes you can take the wrong turn and just end up in some weird ass places. Like one minute I could be in my room and decide to travel out and end up in a weird realm. I once traveled to this place that was like kaliediscope of colors, like fuckin fireworks and just all these bright things. It was crazy. I dont think youre trying to disprove me or anything, youre just curious so ask away, i dont mind. I know a lot of people try to be cool and say they do these things so its natural to skeptical.
- Join Date
- Nov 2011
There is a way to check this, which is as follows:
Some hospitals in the UK are involved in this ongoing study of near death experiences. NDEs happen to some people in hospital when they temporarily die in the operating theatre, and find themselves floating up out of their body, and observing the whole room, the doctors, nurses, and their own body from a vantage point high up in the room. This experience is reported over and over again in hospitals: it's recounted once the patient is resuscitated. The question that nobody can really answer is whether this out of body experience is real, and is an example of consciousness genuinely leaving the body, or whether the experience is vividly imagined or constructed by the person in their own head while that were technically dead.
So a cunning but simple plan was devised to see if the patient really has become a free-floating consciousness detached from their body, and is "really there" floating about in the operating theatre. The plan simply involves placing words or phrases, printed on paper, on the tops of cupboards and shelves in the operating theatre. These short messages are placed high up, so that they can be clearly seen from the top of the room, and are written in very large type, but cannot be seen by anyone else just walking into the room, including doctors and patients. So the only way you can see these printed messages is by being at a vantage point near the top of the room (near the ceiling).
So what you could do yourself is get someone else to randomly select some words or phrases, and print them in huge type on a various sheets of paper (without telling you what the words are), and get them to place these sheets of paper in high up places in the rooms of your house, so that you cannot possibly see them under normal circumstances. You could even put some in the attic, if you have one.
Then, the next time you astral astral travel, you can try to read these words.
Last edited by Hip; 24-11-2011 at 06:15.
- Join Date
- Nov 2011
By the way, the health supplements colloidal platinum and D-aspartic acid both appear to promote lucid dreaming.
On the out of body experience / near death experience side of things, the anti-anxiety supplement agmatine is supposed to promote OBE/NDE experiences. Ketamine also, but I guess with a much stronger effect.
The secretion of endorphins is also thought to be linked to OBE/NDE.
- Join Date
- Nov 2011
This is something very interesting I found posted online a while ago by a guy named Bob Peterson:
Out-of-Body Experiences vs. Lucid Dreams
written by Bob Peterson April 17, 1995
Are OBEs and Lucid Dreams the same phenomena? Based on my experiences with both states, I believe they are different. The following is table 6.5 from chapter 6 of "With the Eyes of the Mind An Empirical Analysis of Out-of-Body States" by Gabbard and Twemlow (1984). The book is an in-depth study of the OBE from a psychological perspective. Each chapter compares OBE to a psychological phenomena to see how they stack up. One of the things they compare OBEs to is Lucid Dreams. The chapter is called "More Real Than a Dream."
Comparison of Lucid Dreams versus OBE
LUCID DREAM OBE A. 50%-70% incidence in general
14%-25% incidence in general
B. Occurs only during sleep. Occurs usually when awake. C. Dreamer can consciously program
OBEer is a passive, objective
D. Dreamer and physical body are
OBEer perceives him/herself as
separated from the physical
body, which is inert and
E. Consciousness often vivid, with
mystical qualities in experienced
Consciousness more ordinary,
like being awake, even in
F. Dream is seen as a totally personal
(subjective) production of the
OBEer does not see it as a
subjective personal production,
but rather as objective
G. EEG; REM dream type with
No typical REM findings on EEG. H. Physical body not visible. Physical body usually visible. I. Fewer have a lasting positive
Usually a highly positive
I'd like to comment on some of the findings described in the chart. First, under D, I'd like to note that during Lucid Dreams, the dreamer is aware of him/herself as occupying the dream body, and is not aware of another (physical) body. A lucid dreamer may "realize" they have a body that's sleeping, but they have no awareness of that sleeping body. An OBEer also occupies his or her non-physical body, but often they are aware of their physical body in relation to where their consciousness is.
Under H, often the OBEer will see their physical body, but LDers do not. Under G, lucid dreams have been classified into two categories:
(1) ones that occur during REM sleep, and (2) ones that occur during non-REM (NREM) sleep. As far as I know, most of the research in LDs has been on the second kind. Although the data is lacking, studies on OBEs indicate they do not occur during REM sleep. If anyone knows of research which contradicts this, I'd like more information/references.
In a lucid dream, typically one does not dream about being in one's bedroom, as is common in the out-of-body state.
Also, after a lucid dream, the subject accepts the "unreality" of the lucid dream after awakening. After an OBE, the subject usually asserts emphatically that the experience was "real."
Many Lucid Dreams contain sexual content. In fact, author Patricia Garfield indicates that "fully two-thirds" of her LDs have sexual content.
During LDs, sexuality is convincingly real. In other words, it feels the same as real sex.
OBEs, however, rarely have sexual content. When OBEers report having "astral sex," the experience is not anything like physical sex. It's more like an ecstatic mind-trip, a transfer of energy, or a euphoria, but it doesn't feel like physical sex.
Lucid dreams are not easily remembered, unless one is conditioned. LaBerge indicates that memory is a key factor of having Lucid Dreams. OBEs, however, are usually remembered vividly for years.
Typical lucid dreams happen from REM sleep. People don't unexpectedly pass into a lucid dream from a waking state. But typical OBEs are initiated from a waking state. In fact, OBEs can unexpectedly occur from a waking state. For instance, several people (myself included) have reported OBEs during which they have unexpectedly "fallen out of their body" from total consciousness. Some of these (mine included) occur when the physical body is active, such as walking down the street.
Also, an out-of-body experience is a typical feature of a Near Death Experience (NDE). One can hardly think that Lucid Dreams occur during an NDE, especially because the physical body doesn't spontaneously go into REM sleep during an NDE.
LaBerge, in chapter 3 (page 61) of his (excellent) book "Lucid Dreaming" cites that "untested philosophical assumptions have until recently blocked the scientific study and acceptance of lucid dreaming." And yet his untested philosophical assumptions about the OBE have biased people's attitudes against regarding the OBE as a separate phenomena worthy of scientific study. As a result, many people have "written off" the OBE as a lucid dream of poor quality.
Regardless of what OBEs and Lucid Dreams are, I believe they are two separate phenomena, and I'm not alone in this belief (as supported by Gabbard and Twemlow). I do believe that occasionally people confuse one experience for the other. And granted: It's very difficult to tell the difference in some cases. One thing is for sure: more study is needed. It is premature to jump to the conclusion that "OBEs are actually variant interpretations of lucid dreams" as proposed by LaBerge in chapter 9 of his book.
Let the flaming begin.
I'm very interested in Lucid dreaming or dreaming in general (I currently take 6mg of clonazepam a day and it suppresses R.E.M sleep), i don't have any problem sleeping it's just that my dreaming experiences are rather bland) does anyone have any suggestions to induce and encourage dreaming/lucid dreaming , I have tried some herbal extracts to no effect, so pharmaceutical and herbal drug suggestions would be welcome (going without clonazepam for a few days wouldn't be a problem, for experimental purposes with any sleeping agent you could suggest)
Last edited by schizaphonic; 10-12-2011 at 06:26.
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
- This sweet place they call Earth.
I would just like to point out that "Ultimate Journey" by Robert Monroe that Mugz mentioned is a very good read. Thank you very much for directing me/us to it.
I saw ketamine mentiond. It doesnt seem that easy to find unless you already know people these days. The damn DEA laws are really commin down hard on some of these scedule drugs haha - hopefulyl Ican find a few of these chemicals you mentioned and try them out.
I also heard about 50mg of melatonin can give you a really light-headed, flouting types dreams, with all the colors of the rainbow to boot haha
- Join Date
- Nov 2011
D-aspartic acid powder you can buy from build-bulding supplement suppliers; colloidal platinum is sometimes sold by people who sell colloidal silver (colloidal silver is used as an antibiotic).
Colloidal gold, by the way, is another interesting supplement; it promotes a spiritual state. Other supplements that promote increased spiritual awareness include reishi mushroom (take around 1000 mg twice daily for a week or so, and it has a noticeable cumulative effects on your spiritual state); L-theanine (around 200 mg increases alpha waves in the brain about an hour after taking it, and so is a good companion to meditation); frankincense essential oil (say 5 drops of this oil, mixed in a carrier oil, and rubbed on the skin anywhere on the body, where it will be slowly absorbed over a few hours, and will soon increase you spiritual energy for around 8 hours).
All these spiritual supplements will have a subtle boosting affect on your spiritual state, and help you gain a more refined, intuitive intelligence, that views things from a higher vantage point.
To promote more vivid dreams, with stronger colors, take vitamin B12 (dose: 5,000 mcg = 5 mg) as a sublingual tablet you suck under the tongue just before bed.