The Big & Dandy LSB (Lysergic Acid 2-Butyl Amide) Thread

[Unholy Jim]

Welcome to the Big & Dandy LSB Thread


ModEdit: It now appears that the "LSB" which was circulating is actually an unknown compound called "LSBD" which is unlikely to be an ergoloid at all. There have been NO samples which even appear to be genuine LSB

Lysergic acid 2-butyl amide (2-Butyllysergamide, LSB) is an analogue of LSD originally developed by Richard Pioch at Eli Lilly in the 1950s, but mostly publicised through research conducted by the team led by David E. Nichols at Purdue University. It is a structural isomer of LSD, with the two ethyl groups on the amide nitrogen having been replaced by a single butyl group, joined at the 2-position.

It is one of the few lysergamide derivatives to exceed the potency of LSD in animal drug discrimination assays, with the (R) isomer having an ED50 of 33nmol/kg for producing drug-appropriate responding, vs 48nmol/kg for LSD itself. The corresponding (R)-2-pentyl analogue has higher binding affinity for the 5-HT1A and 5-HT2A receptors, but is less potent in producing drug-appropriate responding, suggesting that the butyl compound has a higher efficacy at the receptor target.
The drug discrimination assay for LSD in rats involves both 5-HT1A and 5-HT2A mediated components, and while lysergic acid 2-butyl amide is more potent than LSD as a 5-HT1A agonist, it is slightly less potent as a 5-HT2A agonist, and so would probably be slightly less potent than LSD as a hallucinogen in humans. The main use for this drug has been in studies of the binding site at the 5-HT2A receptor through which LSD exerts most of its pharmacological effects, with the stereoselective activity of these unsymmetric monoalkyl lysergamides foreshadowing the subsequent development of compounds such as Lysergic acid 2,4-dimethylazetidide.

Having trawled the internet for RC suppliers I found a few offering free samples. Naturally I took up the offer and I have been contacted by the supplier saying that I am to receive 10mg of 25c-nbome and some LSB (2 pieces, I assume this means 2 prepared tabs)

BUT WTF IS LSB? I can't find anything about it.

The following is copied from the email and is LITERALLY all I know about this substance. I'm assuming it's just LSD with a few structural changes, just like the Nbome series are just fiddled 2ci.

In a previous email the seller mentioned that he would send a new product as recompense for his delay in replying.... The LSB.

For legal reasons he refers to it all as plant food....

Email excerpt:

LSB
Lysergic acid 2-butyl amide (2-Butyllysergamide, LSB)
ion excahnge paper layer 0,5x0,5cm/ 1 piece contain 0,12mg
daily dose chart for Orchidaceaes (Orchid family specimes)
put the paper on the plants leaf and the leaf should be wet!
The compound is strictly solely for plant research!!!
Threshold
0-0,03mg (0,2mg = 0,0002g = 1/5000g)
Light
0,03 - 0,06 mg (half piece)
Common
0,07- 0,12 mg
Strong
0,15- 0,2 mg
Heavy
+ 0,24 mg (2 pieces)


So does anyone know anything about this stuff?

[Twigs]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergi..._2-butyl_amide

I think it's very very unlikely that the seller actually has this chemical.

[Unholy Jim]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergi..._2-butyl_amide

I think it's very very unlikely that the seller actually has this chemical.

It's available in bulk apparently :L

[twelvesevndi]

it is illegal in the UK...

[Unholy Jim]

it is illegal in the UK...

That I didn't know....

But then again so are a lot of things.

[atara]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergi..._2-butyl_amide

I think it's very very unlikely that the seller actually has this chemical.

It's not impossible. The amide analogs of LSD are much easier to synthesize than the LAD series that went around a while back. However, there's no guarantee that this stuff shares LSD's safety, effects, or dosage range. Please use caution.

And yes, it is illegal in the UK, since they have blanket legislation banning a large class of lysergamides.

[Solipsis]

I made your thread title much more concise, the rest wasn't really necessary, please watch that.

The main LSD analogues that are actually close (and thus more likely to be side-synthed, especially if the recipe is reasonable and similar, are:

LSB (2-butyl)
LSP (3-pentyl)
not sure what the methyl (iso) propyl amide is called, but Nichols did propose this as one of the few that aren't entirely worthless.

There is also LSM which is the morpholidine if I am not mistaken.
And the azetidide seems very sexy to me.

Most analogues show about a 10-fold drop in potency which is why I am surprised the dose is about 120 micrograms, maybe I didn't pay enough attention to Nichols.

The reports on these analogues seem to be super scarce and mostly rumors roam around, but there are theories that there are actually more of these circulating on blotter than we realize... and this would account for LSD-like experiences that are a little 'off'. Then it could just be shrugged off as a weak batch or something like that.

We actually have a thread on these compounds and you can expect this thread to be merged into it later on... here is the link already

[Unholy Jim]

If anyone actually finds a trip report please let me know!

A friend and I are considering putting it to the test, all in the name of science, of course.

If we do get round to taking this trip we'll fill you in with a report. I'd like to at least know the duration before I start on this stuff though :L

[Survived Abortion]

One thing you could do to rule it out being an NBOMe is to swallow the blotter immediately. NBOMes are not active orally (or the bioavailability is so low as to make normal doses way below threshold), so if it does work then you know it wasn't an NBOMe. Which will be helpful in the report. You might also want to reagent test it with Erlich to make sure it is not a DOx.

[Unholy Jim]

One thing you could do to rule it out being an NBOMe is to swallow the blotter immediately. NBOMes are not active orally (or the bioavailability is so low as to make normal doses way below threshold), so if it does work then you know it wasn't an NBOMe. Which will be helpful in the report. You might also want to reagent test it with Erlich to make sure it is not a DOx.

That's a very good idea. Is LSB definitely active orally like LSD?

Where can I get this erlich?

[Solipsis]

Well either by searching the web for 'Ehrlich reagent', buying a testkit specifically for LSD (it will also show analogues of it), or mixing it yourself.

LSB should be active orally, it seems unthinkable that such a tiny adjustment would render it inactive that way. And we do mean tiny, because there is very little margin to begin with.

[Unholy Jim]

Thanks guys, I think i'll look into some

Just wanted to say I'm really enjoying being part of this forum

[sekio]

One would need a mass spectrometer to make a judgement on whether the material they have is truly LSB and not e.g. LSD. Ehrlich and Marquis/Mecke will probably look the same...

Given that this compound is still an ergoloid (and illegal in many jurisdictions because of that) it requires the exact same precursors and synthetic setup as if you were making LSD, or ergonovine.
Just like fluorococaine, lysergic acid dimehylazetizide, and the RTI series, I would be highly suspicious of clandestine labs selling this. Unless your supplier wants to juggle legal chainsaws trying to source a difficult to manufacture, fairly delicate compound, in commercial quantities... there is a high possibility you could be recieving something totally different, like a 2c-compound.

If you were purchasing from Tocris it would be another thing, but... let's be honest here, orchid plants don't drop blotter acid, and anyone smart enough to manufacture and sell LSB knows that, too.

[Survived Abortion]

That's a very good idea. Is LSB definitely active orally like LSD?

Where can I get this erlich?

Yes LSB should be as active orally as LSD is. Ehrlich reagent is available online, you can even get it on amazon.com.

One would need a mass spectrometer to make a judgement on whether the material they have is truly LSB and not e.g. LSD. Ehrlich and Marquis/Mecke will probably look the same...

Given that this compound is still an ergoloid (and illegal in many jurisdictions because of that) it requires the exact same precursors and synthetic setup as if you were making LSD, or ergonovine.
Just like fluorococaine, lysergic acid dimehylazetizide, and the RTI series, I would be highly suspicious of clandestine labs selling this. Unless your supplier wants to juggle legal chainsaws trying to source a difficult to manufacture, fairly delicate compound, in commercial quantities... there is a high possibility you could be recieving something totally different, like a 2c-compound.

Hence the reason to do the Ehrlich. No, it won't distinguish between various lysergamides, but if it tests positive for one, then you can be pretty sure it will probably be what was advertised. If a vendor is crafty enough to be able to source and sell a lysergamide, it doesn't make any sense that they would misrepresent it for another lysergamide. They've already done the hard work so to speak, they've got no reason to misrepresent, say, ETH-LAD for LSB.

[Unholy Jim]

Besides speculating whether or not the tabs actually are LSB, does anyone know anything more about it?

Duration, effects, Etc

[sekio]

In theory the dosage should be in the same order of magnitude as LSD and the effects should be comparable.

I doubt anyone who has access to this compound via legitimate means wantsa to lose their job bioassaying it and posting details.

[Onandoff]

Starting to see this compound going around RC market. And I can probably obtain some free samples(they are in ion exchange paper layer 0,5x0,5cm/ 1 piece contain 0,12mg it says). Does anyone have experience with this before?
It is LSD analogue and I am wondering if this is more like nbome class or 2c-e type? I can't find any trip reports on google or erowid so I guess this is totally new stuff.
Any input is appreciated.

edit: oh oops... didn't know there was already another thread opened about this heh. Thanks for merging!

[Solipsis]

Merged together 2 threads on LSB.

Why would it be like an NBOMe or 2C-E? It is structurally very similar to LSD so it is probably a lot like that but maybe with a little longer or shorter duration or other aspects that might be tweaked. A lot of people find 25I-NBOMe similar to LSD though so I guess they might all be subjectively alike.

[Onandoff]

Besides speculating whether or not the tabs actually are LSB, does anyone know anything more about it?

Duration, effects, Etc

I've looked everywhere and can't find any info on those either. You just have to be the first human guinea pig maybe lol. I have absolutely good experiences that vendor though so far so I just might go ahead and give it a shot since I can't find legit LSD. Will let y'all know if i do obtain this.

[azzo]

I will try this one too, same vendor for sure, anyway it isn't so reliable in my experience since in the past he sent me the wrong Nbome and i'm pretty sure it was Freebase instead of HCl as agreed, it was totally insoluble in hot water, it went into solution with good amount of alcohol.

[Transform]

Looks like the first guinea pig has taken the leap.

Dosed sublingually and caused notable numbing.... suspicious.

[azzo]

Someone there already suspects it isn't real LSB but some NBOMex or DOx, anyway if it is Nbome should be easy to find out since they don't work orally, it would be harder with something like DOC, i find it similar to LSD (and as far as I understood LSB should be similar to LSD) except that for the duration and stimulation.

Anyway i will test the blotter with Marquis and Ehrlich to be sure.
Assuming that it is some phenethylamine like Nbome or DOx what color should appear in Ehrlich test?

In Marquis with DOx or Nbome should be like yellow/green while for LSD or homologues compunds like black, right?

And also to double check the results using my DOC and Nbomes how many mg i should use, 1 or 2 or more?

[Solipsis]

Don't let blotter react with Marquis because the paper contributes to the color, other than that yes I believe you are right.

About how much to use, this document says to use a minimum 1.0 μg/μL solution of drug, but to multiply by a factor of 10 to get more certainty. For an average water drop the volume is 50 μL, so I think 1 mg is actually more than enough.

[azzo]

Thanks for the info, i will use only 1 mg then.
Too bad LSB is only available in blotters so i will only test it with Ehrlich then,i think it should become something between red and purple if it is the real LSB or homologues, don't know if this test will show any colouration with Phenethylamines though, to be sure i will test DOC and 25I-Nbome on it too.

[Solipsis]

Well you can always extract a blotter by simply soaking it in a solvent like alcohol. Use an absolutely minimal volume of solvent though because otherwise it might be diluted too much to test.
(Also you can see vague test colors better if you look through 'more' liquid because it adds up. You might happen to have a small container to help that)

* If you have ultraviolet light (blacklight) you can also detect lysergides.